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> there’s more danger in hundreds of people fleeing in panic down stairs (whether that’s 1 stair case or 2) than staying inside. Is there? I’ve never seen peop

by dpark 5y ago

> there’s more danger in hundreds of people fleeing in panic down stairs (whether that’s 1 stair case or 2) than staying inside. Is there? I’ve never seen people panic when a fire alarm goes off. Maybe if the fire alarm is going off as the building is filling with deadly smoke people would panic. But then that seems appropriate (or at least better than sitting and waiting to die of smoke inhalation). Pretty sure the Grenfell situation would have ended better by having everyone evacuate. And yes, the incompetent cladding work makes that a special case. But a huge amount of our codes are for a special case. Every so often it saves 70 lives.

sofixa 5y ago
The problem isn't only a potential panic. While the people are evacuating, how does the fire brigade get to where they need to combat the fire in the apartment?
- dpark 5y ago
  This is sort of a comical response. The building is engulfed in flames and plan is to keep the stairwells clear. If the concrete and fire doors are doing their supposed job, then the fire brigade can just wait. If the concrete and fire doors are not doing their job, then getting people out is far more important than getting the fire brigade in.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > If the concrete and fire doors are doing their supposed job, then the fire brigade can just wait. Wait until the people in the apartment on fire die? (Either it starts in an apartment, or a common are which would block the escape of inhabitants living on there or higher)
    - dpark 5y ago
      I’m struggling to understand the scenario you’re describing. So the alarm goes off because an apartment is on fire. In response to this, everyone else waits until the fire brigade shows up to attempt to exit? I’m pretty sure if people are going to evacuate, they’ll do this in response to the alarm, and not wait and block the stairs. Also I’m pretty sure the fire brigade can tell them to get the out of the way to get up the stairs if necessary. How narrow are these stairs anyway? And why did everyone not evacuate before the fire brigade showed up? I just find the “apartment on fire, but everyone is blocking the stairs so the fire brigade can’t get to the burning apartment” scenario to be far fetched. Are there documented cases of this? Because there is at least one documented case of people sheltering in place and the building burning around them.

by dpark 5y ago

sofixa 5y ago

The problem isn't only a potential panic. While the people are evacuating, how does the fire brigade get to where they need to combat the fire in the apartment?

dpark 5y ago
This is sort of a comical response. The building is engulfed in flames and plan is to keep the stairwells clear. If the concrete and fire doors are doing their supposed job, then the fire brigade can just wait. If the concrete and fire doors are not doing their job, then getting people out is far more important than getting the fire brigade in.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > If the concrete and fire doors are doing their supposed job, then the fire brigade can just wait. Wait until the people in the apartment on fire die? (Either it starts in an apartment, or a common are which would block the escape of inhabitants living on there or higher)
  - dpark 5y ago
    I’m struggling to understand the scenario you’re describing. So the alarm goes off because an apartment is on fire. In response to this, everyone else waits until the fire brigade shows up to attempt to exit? I’m pretty sure if people are going to evacuate, they’ll do this in response to the alarm, and not wait and block the stairs. Also I’m pretty sure the fire brigade can tell them to get the out of the way to get up the stairs if necessary. How narrow are these stairs anyway? And why did everyone not evacuate before the fire brigade showed up? I just find the “apartment on fire, but everyone is blocking the stairs so the fire brigade can’t get to the burning apartment” scenario to be far fetched. Are there documented cases of this? Because there is at least one documented case of people sheltering in place and the building burning around them.