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You are not describing Rule of Law. The rule of law is what you use to say that people are treated according to the law, not given special exceptions or punishm

You are not describing Rule of Law. The rule of law is what you use to say that people are treated according to the law, not given special exceptions or punishments because of how much they are liked or hated. The opposite of the rule of law is generally the “rule of men” and is typified by the powerful having the discretion to punish enemies on a whim. Consider, for instance, someone who brings forth a charge of sexual assault against a minister, and is disappeared. The law, however, seems to be followed here. What you are describing, in any event, is more about Equal Treatment Under the Law, in a moral sense (avoiding any excuse that could read like “anyone can invest $10 million so it’s technically open to everyone”). But as others here say, the visa holders get in line for limited quarantine facilities like anyone else. It seems like the outrage is about these brand-new residents getting equal treatment with current residents, instead of the current residents getting priority. There is a reasonable case you should prioritize existing citizens over new residents, as they likely have greater reliance interests on their legal residence, but it’s not any rule-of-law or equal-treatment claim.

nowherebeen 5y ago
> It seems like the outrage is about these brand-new residents getting equal treatment with current residents, instead of the current residents getting priority. This seems flawed to me. Do poor people get to queue up for MIQ? No, because they can’t qualify for the visa scheme because they aren’t rich enough. So it’s not really equal treatment for these new residents because they are already given an advantage because of their money. They qualify simply because they are rich. Equal treatment would be letting all foreigners apply for the same visa scheme based on non-monetary merits such as occupation.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  I'm very much for radically open borders — in economic terms, it's one of those twenty-trillion dollar bills lying around on the sidewalk that no one has picked up yet. And okay, that's a reasonable point to make — in isolation. But in context, do you honestly suggest that the New Zealand outrage described here would be remedied by opening more visas to more people, and getting them into the quarantine?
  - nowherebeen 5y ago
    This kind of brings the question should this kind of visa scheme exist in the first place during Covid. From my very limited knowledge, these are just pledges, not actual investments. Given a) NZ tiny market, b) high corporate tax rate, and c) isolation as an Oceania island (shipping), would it make sense to invest in NZ right now? My bet is that they expect Covid to end in the next 1-2 years and all these rich people will leave. These new residents are simply taking advantage of this visa scheme and not actually long term residents. That’s just my 2 cents and I may be wrong.
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      My understanding of these schemes is that they are generally designed for rich people who accumulated wealth in countries where they might like to have a backup option if their government gets in a particularly seize-y mood. (e.g. China or Russia)
      - nowherebeen 5y ago
        Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US? That was my impression. The middle class are usually Chinese. But regardless, rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair. Is NZ okay with this kind of wealth transfer to their country knowing this? (Well we all know the answer honestly)
        sabellito 5y ago
        > rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair When you say it like that, creating a contrast between "east and west" and dishonest/criminal behaviour, it sounds a bit racist. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that point?
        nowherebeen 5y ago
        True. I can only say as a Software Engineer, the tech industry in China is highly unfair from my personal experience. There are a lot of bullying tactics involve for startups that are not invested by Tencent and Alibaba. Startup founders themselves are not much better because they don't give equity to employees. Therefore, all the wealth accumulates to the founder and their investors, while the employees slave away under 996. I wouldn't say it is criminal behavior though. I specific choose the word unfair for this reason. I also like to point out, I don't think the West is any better either. As for Russia, I don't know enough to judge them. That, I apologize. > Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US I also want to clarify this point. NZ is not usually on the list for rich Chinese people. They go to Singapore. But it is for rich Americans like Larry Page, Peter Thiel, and a few Silicon Valley execs.
tshaddox 5y ago
“Rule of law” in common usage definitely means that each person is subject to the same laws. This is the definition I have always heard people use, and it matches OED’s and the UN’s definition.

nowherebeen 5y ago

> It seems like the outrage is about these brand-new residents getting equal treatment with current residents, instead of the current residents getting priority. This seems flawed to me. Do poor people get to queue up for MIQ? No, because they can’t qualify for the visa scheme because they aren’t rich enough. So it’s not really equal treatment for these new residents because they are already given an advantage because of their money. They qualify simply because they are rich. Equal treatment would be letting all foreigners apply for the same visa scheme based on non-monetary merits such as occupation.

fennecfoxen 5y ago
I'm very much for radically open borders — in economic terms, it's one of those twenty-trillion dollar bills lying around on the sidewalk that no one has picked up yet. And okay, that's a reasonable point to make — in isolation. But in context, do you honestly suggest that the New Zealand outrage described here would be remedied by opening more visas to more people, and getting them into the quarantine?
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  This kind of brings the question should this kind of visa scheme exist in the first place during Covid. From my very limited knowledge, these are just pledges, not actual investments. Given a) NZ tiny market, b) high corporate tax rate, and c) isolation as an Oceania island (shipping), would it make sense to invest in NZ right now? My bet is that they expect Covid to end in the next 1-2 years and all these rich people will leave. These new residents are simply taking advantage of this visa scheme and not actually long term residents. That’s just my 2 cents and I may be wrong.
  - bobthepanda 5y ago
    My understanding of these schemes is that they are generally designed for rich people who accumulated wealth in countries where they might like to have a backup option if their government gets in a particularly seize-y mood. (e.g. China or Russia)
    - nowherebeen 5y ago
      Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US? That was my impression. The middle class are usually Chinese. But regardless, rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair. Is NZ okay with this kind of wealth transfer to their country knowing this? (Well we all know the answer honestly)
      - sabellito 5y ago
        > rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair When you say it like that, creating a contrast between "east and west" and dishonest/criminal behaviour, it sounds a bit racist. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that point?
        nowherebeen 5y ago
        True. I can only say as a Software Engineer, the tech industry in China is highly unfair from my personal experience. There are a lot of bullying tactics involve for startups that are not invested by Tencent and Alibaba. Startup founders themselves are not much better because they don't give equity to employees. Therefore, all the wealth accumulates to the founder and their investors, while the employees slave away under 996. I wouldn't say it is criminal behavior though. I specific choose the word unfair for this reason. I also like to point out, I don't think the West is any better either. As for Russia, I don't know enough to judge them. That, I apologize. > Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US I also want to clarify this point. NZ is not usually on the list for rich Chinese people. They go to Singapore. But it is for rich Americans like Larry Page, Peter Thiel, and a few Silicon Valley execs.

tshaddox 5y ago

“Rule of law” in common usage definitely means that each person is subject to the same laws. This is the definition I have always heard people use, and it matches OED’s and the UN’s definition.