5 ms·

The point is, since it was deliberate, the person could almost as easily blocked both stairs. It's not comparable to an accidental fire that potentially impress

The point is, since it was deliberate, the person could almost as easily blocked both stairs. It's not comparable to an accidental fire that potentially impress a single staircase

emodendroket 5y ago
I disagree that they could have done this just as easily. One person can only guard one way.
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  Yeah but one person who is setting fires could torch a stairwell, effectively blocking it without being there.
  - aaron695 5y ago
    People setting these fires are not experts. Let's say a lot of them are garbage and you only hear about the rare occasions it works. Let's say 10% of the time the fire is good enough to kill. Two stair wells means only 1% of the time you get a kill. Lighting two fires is also harder, you need more planning and stuff. So that probably equals out a bit for the better fire lighters. If it's Mossad doing it then sure it's possibly similar.
    - lenkite 5y ago
      "Police quoted witnesses who saw a man walking into the clinic with a paper bag, which he put on the floor, right next to a heater by the reception desk, and kicked it. Liquid poured out, caught fire and the whole floor was in flames and smoke." Don't really need to be an expert in starting fires.
    - picsao 5y ago
- dapids 5y ago
  Seriously? We are talking about fire here. Set it and forget it, doesn't require constant attention ...
  - lazide 5y ago
    It does in most places - concrete stairwells (typical) don’t exactly love fire. Sheetrock similar.
    - dapids 5y ago
      If an accelerant is used that is continuously burned until exhausted , then I'm not sure it matters where or what materials are present. If there is a fire at an exit that persists and is difficult to extinguish, said arsonist can then move to the next exit, and perform the same action. Thus blocking multiple exits while acting as a single individual. That's my point.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - bluGill 5y ago
        But hopefully the fire alarms are causing an evacuation and those using the other door will stop someone from going in
        dapids 5y ago
        As someone who has been trapped in a building during a fire by a pipe wielding maniac. It isn't always that simple.
        lazide 5y ago
        Story time?
      - lazide 5y ago
        It’s surprisingly hard to put enough accelerant in a place to burn awhile (5-10 minutes?) in a way that can’t be interfered with and will keep going without tending, without drawing attention to yourself while doing so if anyone is paying attention. Most portable methods (gasoline can?) are so volatile it is just going to explode almost immediately and are easy to recognize as a hazard. Certainly not impossible, but it requires more craftiness and more prep the more complicated we get. Which hopefully there aren’t that many folks who are likely to do so. And if someone does, we can catch them fast. Basic redundancy is a good idea (n=2) in general, for many many reasons. Maintenance doesn’t take out the only way out for instance, or a single fight or accident doesn’t leave someone stuck. N=5 is probably overkill for anything for a huge convention center.
bobthepanda 5y ago
That also happens, or effectively happens. Part of modern US stairwell regulation also learned from 9/11, where they found out it wasn't a great idea to have all the required stairwells very close to each other either.
lazide 5y ago
2 stairways are much harder to block than one, especially if they are at opposite ends of the structure. One person will struggle to keep them blocked. That’s a whole lot better than 1 stairwell!
- pas 5y ago
  Why? Lock one, go to the other, douse it with something flammable, light it. Anyway. Most of the world does not go up in flames regularly, despite having not having this regulation.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    Why mitigate against fire at all? If the standard is that most of the world has to be burning for that to be practical, it'll never be practical.
    - pas 5y ago
      Fire safety has tremendous value, but it should mandate results not specific methods.
  - lazide 5y ago
    Fire extinguishers are remarkably effective at opening locked doors, FYI. And a surprising number of people are not only aware of this fact, but remember where the fire extinguishers are. Some folks would get stuck and not get out, but it generally requires dedicated eyes on a crowd if you want to keep them inside something for any length of time. Hence prison guards, locks being a dedicated profession, etc.

The point is, since it was deliberate, the person could almost as easily blocked both stairs. It's not comparable to an accidental fire that potentially impress a single staircase

emodendroket 5y ago

I disagree that they could have done this just as easily. One person can only guard one way.

bluefirebrand 5y ago
Yeah but one person who is setting fires could torch a stairwell, effectively blocking it without being there.
- aaron695 5y ago
  People setting these fires are not experts. Let's say a lot of them are garbage and you only hear about the rare occasions it works. Let's say 10% of the time the fire is good enough to kill. Two stair wells means only 1% of the time you get a kill. Lighting two fires is also harder, you need more planning and stuff. So that probably equals out a bit for the better fire lighters. If it's Mossad doing it then sure it's possibly similar.
  - lenkite 5y ago
    "Police quoted witnesses who saw a man walking into the clinic with a paper bag, which he put on the floor, right next to a heater by the reception desk, and kicked it. Liquid poured out, caught fire and the whole floor was in flames and smoke." Don't really need to be an expert in starting fires.
  - picsao 5y ago
dapids 5y ago
Seriously? We are talking about fire here. Set it and forget it, doesn't require constant attention ...
- lazide 5y ago
  It does in most places - concrete stairwells (typical) don’t exactly love fire. Sheetrock similar.
  - dapids 5y ago
    If an accelerant is used that is continuously burned until exhausted , then I'm not sure it matters where or what materials are present. If there is a fire at an exit that persists and is difficult to extinguish, said arsonist can then move to the next exit, and perform the same action. Thus blocking multiple exits while acting as a single individual. That's my point.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - bluGill 5y ago
      But hopefully the fire alarms are causing an evacuation and those using the other door will stop someone from going in
      - dapids 5y ago
        As someone who has been trapped in a building during a fire by a pipe wielding maniac. It isn't always that simple.
        lazide 5y ago
        Story time?
    - lazide 5y ago
      It’s surprisingly hard to put enough accelerant in a place to burn awhile (5-10 minutes?) in a way that can’t be interfered with and will keep going without tending, without drawing attention to yourself while doing so if anyone is paying attention. Most portable methods (gasoline can?) are so volatile it is just going to explode almost immediately and are easy to recognize as a hazard. Certainly not impossible, but it requires more craftiness and more prep the more complicated we get. Which hopefully there aren’t that many folks who are likely to do so. And if someone does, we can catch them fast. Basic redundancy is a good idea (n=2) in general, for many many reasons. Maintenance doesn’t take out the only way out for instance, or a single fight or accident doesn’t leave someone stuck. N=5 is probably overkill for anything for a huge convention center.

bobthepanda 5y ago

That also happens, or effectively happens. Part of modern US stairwell regulation also learned from 9/11, where they found out it wasn't a great idea to have all the required stairwells very close to each other either.

lazide 5y ago

2 stairways are much harder to block than one, especially if they are at opposite ends of the structure. One person will struggle to keep them blocked. That’s a whole lot better than 1 stairwell!

pas 5y ago
Why? Lock one, go to the other, douse it with something flammable, light it. Anyway. Most of the world does not go up in flames regularly, despite having not having this regulation.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Why mitigate against fire at all? If the standard is that most of the world has to be burning for that to be practical, it'll never be practical.
  - pas 5y ago
    Fire safety has tremendous value, but it should mandate results not specific methods.
- lazide 5y ago
  Fire extinguishers are remarkably effective at opening locked doors, FYI. And a surprising number of people are not only aware of this fact, but remember where the fire extinguishers are. Some folks would get stuck and not get out, but it generally requires dedicated eyes on a crowd if you want to keep them inside something for any length of time. Hence prison guards, locks being a dedicated profession, etc.