7 ms·

It’s surprising and disappointing to me that this—titled “ADHD Accommodations Guide”—buries accommodation recommendations under sub-links and all of the remaini

It’s surprising and disappointing to me that this—titled “ADHD Accommodations Guide”—buries accommodation recommendations under sub-links and all of the remaining content is advice for, presumably, those of us with ADHD who are trying to work around lack of accommodations. That said, there’s plenty of good advice even if it’s a little inconsistent. It’s also fascinating how much the social part overlaps with challenges faced by Autistic people[1]. For ADHD folks who find some of the advice on multitasking/focus in meetings wanting: it’s absolutely okay to stim (perform some stimulating, often repetitive action) when you find your ability to stay focused isn’t what you need or what’s expected. I have a reputation for spending most of my time in meetings playing minesweeper. It’s not because I’m not engaged, it’s because it helps me stay engaged. I happily stop or mute my mic if the clicking sound is disruptive, but otherwise I’ve continually established with teammates and even clients that having that part of my focus on something mostly mechanical helps me stay in the conversation and productive. 1: Which I increasingly feel confident in the idea that there’s no meaningful distinction and ADHD should/likely eventually will be considered part of the spectrum, but that’s not why I’m commenting.

isamuel 5y ago
Can you explain your footnote? I do not agree. Someone I love is autistic, and it actually sounds exactly backward to me: the ability to command sustained attention is something she enjoys in remarkable surplus, for example.
- __s 5y ago
  Oddly enough hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD Besides that, if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism
  - isamuel 5y ago
    Spare me the snotty tone. I was asking a question in good faith and still am. Read what I wrote: I know what hyperfocus is and I chose the verb I chose deliberately.
    - opan 5y ago
      The parent's comment doesn't read as snotty to me at all.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    I had hourly episode of smacking forehead into the desk when listening to any kind of lecture 10 minutes into it, and blamed for being sloppy, as far back as I can remember. I was very focused, but was in a constant cycle of burst and brownout. So, just maybe, I think, "attention deficit" issue could rather be called "focus rationing" issue.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  That’s a hallmark of ADHD too. It’s called hyperfocus, often in both contexts. This isn’t just an idea I have though. Comorbidity of ADHD/Autism is very high regardless of diagnostic criteria. There are some academic efforts to study and unify them, and while they’re not mainstream they bear at least some consideration. Diagnostics for both are generally external (observations from affected parents, friends, teachers, colleagues) rather than symptomatic. People who are diagnosed with either report remarkably similar experiences, challenges, and emotional/psychological reactions.
- furyofantares 5y ago
  Not OP, but on the spectrum and also diagnosed with ADHD and sometimes I'm not certain where one ends and one begins. I have hyperfocus for my "special interests" (spectrum) and very little focus for anything that does not intrigue me (adhd) but to my eyes these are the same thing: I just don't have much deliberate control of my focus. There's some other areas where it doesn't map so cleanly to thinks I am interested or disinterested in. Jigsaw puzzles don't interest me, it's incredibly mentally painful for me to focus on one, but I also can't walk away from one. I have the hyperfocus that I get with my special interest combined with the pain of ADHD where you wish you could control your focus (in this case, focus on literally anything else.) Another area of overlap: I associate my extreme social anxiety with autism, but if I take ADHD meds it goes away almost entirely, and my social skills also improve. I think this is again a matter of focus: I stop focusing on social hypotheticals which reduces anxiety, and I also go with the flow rather than work consciously on social interactions, which makes them smoother and less awkward for the counterparty.
rakejake 5y ago
I play minesweeper as well, for the exact same reason as you. Doing something mechanical in between attention demanding tasks.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  I knew I wasn’t the only one!
  - twicetwice 5y ago
    I programmed a simple HTML Snake game so I could have a simple ad-free etc etc game I could play while on the phone with people!
    - xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
      Until I read this I thought I wasn't this kinda person, but this sounds absolutely divine. Like a getting a massage in my mind. I know what I'm doing this weekend.
      - tomrod 5y ago
        I use sudoku for this as well!
  - rakejake 5y ago
    Yeah, I guess it's like free throws or dribbling for basketball players. Not too easy, not too hard, keeps you "in rhythm" for when you want to ramp your attention back.
- abakh 5y ago
- odiroot 5y ago
  Better than fidgeting with fingers. Sometimes I just can't stop doing it during long meetings.
Jensson 5y ago
> It’s also fascinating how much the social part overlaps with challenges faced by Autistic people Autistic people are bad at reading people, ADHD are bad at focusing on people so don't read them in most cases but have no problems at all in social situations when they are focused on them. They are different things. Though I am sure many bad psychologists diagnose inattentive people with autism even though they really have ADHD.
- lobocinza 5y ago
  You can be both.
- steveklabnik 5y ago
  My understanding is that it's an ongoing discussion, similar to how "Asperger syndrome" was considered distinct, but is now considered part of the autism spectrum. (n.b. I know less about this than ADHD, so I could be wrong here) Similarly, it used to be "ADD" and then now is more generally known as ADHD, and even more recently than that, specifically is now considered something with three major "presentations", ADHD-I (inattentive), ADHD-HI (hyperactive-impulsive), and ADHD-C (combined). We're still learning about the brain, and what these sorts of things are, and how they interact. My understanding is that many folks feel there's some sort of relationship here, but the exact details are murky and unknown. It may just be a comorbidity.
- chrsig 5y ago
  I don't have numbers handy, but the last time I looked the overlap of people with ASD that also have ADHD is...pretty substantial (The inverse is not -- it's still a common comorbidity, but not nearly skewed as much) So if you have an autistic person that's inattentive, I believe the chances are they'll get both diagnosis.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    It's also the case that not being able to focus in social situations leads to an aura of aloofness and disconnectedness. I've met plenty of people with an ADHD/autism diagnosis who have no problem reading people. They just don't have friends for whatever reason, which gets them put in the autism box.
caddemon 5y ago
I think it's much more likely that ADHD is N different things and Autism is M different things, where there is some overlap between N and M. I get what you're saying, I just think in order to really progress how we understand/treat these issues it will be important to figure out how to more accurately split them apart rather than grouping more things together.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  You might find the "rdoc" an interesting approach from the National Institute of Mental Health. In contrast to the DSM, the rdoc isnt a way of splitting and labeling disorders as distinct entities (diagnoses). Rather, it looks at different dimensions of disorders to identify the best approaches to treatment. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/research-funded-by-nimh/rdoc/resources/rdoc-frequently-asked-questions-faq https://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/research-funded-by-nimh/rd...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sideshowb 5y ago
  Seems to me most psychiatry diagnoses symptoms not causes at present. Imagine if you went to hospital with chest pains. They ask some questions then say "yeah, sounds like you have chest pains. Try this medicine it sometimes helps people with chest pains" But was it a broken rib or heart attack? Who knows. Hopefully this will change in future.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  in a way these disorders are fake ... I'm ADHD diagnosed and I think also asd. not saying they aren't real... I'm saying they're as real as an apple is really an apple as in would it be an apple if somebody didn't label it as one? diseases of the body have very specific symptoms but also an underlying cause injury, cell damage, virus, bacteria... mental health isn't just the brain... we can't tie consciousness just to the brain...I mean it could be something in our entire central nervous system... all these things are... are buckets... imagine you're fishing and you throw in a bunch of similar fish into a bucket and separate them into two big buckets as similar as possible... you might still have 4 different species of fish per bucket... that's all mental health diagnoses feel like ..a big bucket because everyone behaves differently in different circumstances under different stimulus... were you exposed to lead recently and are more aggressive? are your hormones elevated or lowered than norms? all these little chemical signals going through the brain shape the consciousness to a star or a square but it's not really a star or square... it just closer to a star and square and it's soft around the edges so you can push it into the star shape diagnoses hole even though it's different ... my point is it's all a spectrum and you can't be on the spectrum with aids, cancer, COVID. you have it or you don't... you can have more serious cases or not but there's a definite... solidity to what is infecting you... so personally I think it'd be better if we made smaller buckets that were more about labeling what our symptoms are... then treat those specifically better and maybe have a few broader treatments that treat maybe a trifecta of symptoms... I'm not sure if my point is coming across... basically mental disorders are real but at the same time they're not... because it's an illness if the consciousness.. of thought... and emotions... and the smallest imbalance in even our gut which has brain cells can cause certain reactions...
jprete 5y ago
ADHD and ASD share some overlap, but they are definitely not the same disorder. ADHD is an executive function disorder and you could usefully label it as being deficits in these skills: * Delay your responses to situations long enough to come up with a good and controlled long-term plan * Pattern-match past situations onto the present situation to guide your current response * Mentally tell yourself what to do and have it stick * Manage your emotions towards your long-term interests * Imagine and evaluate multiple possible future outcomes There are other ways to describe it - e.g. I didn't mention short-term memory - but this is the flavor. ASD is completely different. ASD is (I believe) a predictive processing disorder. Normal brain processing involves each layer of the brain predicting what the lower layers will report, and "blending in" all of the minor mistakes in the predictions. Large mistakes are literally surprising and uncomfortable, and push the brain to learn (i.e. change its predictions). Normal brains are constantly ignoring small prediction errors and are very tolerant of ambiguous, uncertain, or new situations. An ASD brain cannot blend in the minor mistakes as well, so it spends a lifetime perpetually surprised and overstimulated by every event that is even slightly unpredictable, and is fairly intolerant of ambiguous, uncertain, or new situations.
- giantg2 5y ago
  "An ASD brain cannot blend in the minor mistakes as well, so it spends a lifetime perpetually surprised and overstimulated by every event that is even slightly unpredictable, and is fairly intolerant of ambiguous, uncertain, or new situations." Wow, it's like you know me. It also makes sense that I found many of the structure oriented things in the accommodations useful/necessary (templates, checklists, email folders,, etc).
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  I’ll probably regret replying tired, because this isn’t me at my best but… this is what I experience, what people I know with ADHD experience, and what a lot of literature describes. I have a hard time even reading it as a potentially different experience.
  - ghusbands 5y ago
octagons 5y ago
> Which I increasingly feel confident in the idea that there’s no meaningful distinction and ADHD should/likely eventually will be considered part of the spectrum I’ve recently been pondering this point myself as I come across more acquaintances, friends, or colleagues who have been clinically diagnosed with ADHD after my own diagnosis. It’s certainly nice to be able to commiserate on some of the more common symptoms, but each of us has had to compensate (or not compensate) in a unique way throughout our lives. I’m always interested in how this manifests differently and affects one’s career or other major components of modern life. I agree that a lot of what’s suggested by this article are very ubiquitous, (sometimes) easier-said-than-done tools and strategies for those that struggle with ADHD. I wasn’t personally surprised by anything here. I am equally frustrated by the lack of availability of an app or planner that lets me “manage my meetings and tasks” that truly meets my needs as someone struggling with executive function disorder and depression caused by the lack of this executive function. I’d love to hear any examples. I have been playing around with pomodoro/task apps (Focus and Focus Keeper) but they have some very odd shortcomings, and Focus wants $40 USD/year to continue use past the free trial.
devmor 5y ago
> Which I increasingly feel confident in the idea that there’s no meaningful distinction and ADHD should/likely eventually will be considered part of the spectrum I'd disagree with this for one single but very important factor - Symptoms of ADHD can often be totally and completely mitigated with medication.
- tremon 5y ago
  Has it been conclusively proven that medication has no effect on ASD patients then? (Genuinely asking, I don't know the answer)
causality0 5y ago
happily stop or mute my mic if the clicking sound is disruptive I've gotten tremendous results from switching to a silent-click mouse.
lowdose 5y ago
Just get th mix of chemicals right. I know the upper limit for an adult is 4x 20mg dexamphetamine retard (20x tintin) + 4 x 80mg of Elvanse. To relax my doctor prescribes 2x 20mg of Xanax. That’s per day. For me it works to smoke some kush in the evening. With this combo I’m in hyperfocus all day which means I can read a book a day. I do not recommend this mixture to everybody. But my impulsiveness is gone which included the need to take mdma and party in the weekend. If a specialist is referring to current academic research that is solely based on children. You can remove the glass sealing by saying you didn’t expect communistic politics in balancing your productivity multiplier from a professional is highly effective. This is also called the Deutsche Bank recipe.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  [flagged]
- 99_00 5y ago
  >You can remove the glass sealing by saying you didn’t expect communistic politics in balancing your productivity multiplier from a professional is highly effective. This is also called the Deutsche Bank recipe. Can you explain this in a different way because I don't understand your point and want to

isamuel 5y ago

Can you explain your footnote? I do not agree. Someone I love is autistic, and it actually sounds exactly backward to me: the ability to command sustained attention is something she enjoys in remarkable surplus, for example.

__s 5y ago
Oddly enough hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD Besides that, if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism
- isamuel 5y ago
  Spare me the snotty tone. I was asking a question in good faith and still am. Read what I wrote: I know what hyperfocus is and I chose the verb I chose deliberately.
  - opan 5y ago
    The parent's comment doesn't read as snotty to me at all.
- numpad0 5y ago
  I had hourly episode of smacking forehead into the desk when listening to any kind of lecture 10 minutes into it, and blamed for being sloppy, as far back as I can remember. I was very focused, but was in a constant cycle of burst and brownout. So, just maybe, I think, "attention deficit" issue could rather be called "focus rationing" issue.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
That’s a hallmark of ADHD too. It’s called hyperfocus, often in both contexts. This isn’t just an idea I have though. Comorbidity of ADHD/Autism is very high regardless of diagnostic criteria. There are some academic efforts to study and unify them, and while they’re not mainstream they bear at least some consideration. Diagnostics for both are generally external (observations from affected parents, friends, teachers, colleagues) rather than symptomatic. People who are diagnosed with either report remarkably similar experiences, challenges, and emotional/psychological reactions.
furyofantares 5y ago
Not OP, but on the spectrum and also diagnosed with ADHD and sometimes I'm not certain where one ends and one begins. I have hyperfocus for my "special interests" (spectrum) and very little focus for anything that does not intrigue me (adhd) but to my eyes these are the same thing: I just don't have much deliberate control of my focus. There's some other areas where it doesn't map so cleanly to thinks I am interested or disinterested in. Jigsaw puzzles don't interest me, it's incredibly mentally painful for me to focus on one, but I also can't walk away from one. I have the hyperfocus that I get with my special interest combined with the pain of ADHD where you wish you could control your focus (in this case, focus on literally anything else.) Another area of overlap: I associate my extreme social anxiety with autism, but if I take ADHD meds it goes away almost entirely, and my social skills also improve. I think this is again a matter of focus: I stop focusing on social hypotheticals which reduces anxiety, and I also go with the flow rather than work consciously on social interactions, which makes them smoother and less awkward for the counterparty.

rakejake 5y ago

I play minesweeper as well, for the exact same reason as you. Doing something mechanical in between attention demanding tasks.

eyelidlessness 5y ago
I knew I wasn’t the only one!
- twicetwice 5y ago
  I programmed a simple HTML Snake game so I could have a simple ad-free etc etc game I could play while on the phone with people!
  - xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
    Until I read this I thought I wasn't this kinda person, but this sounds absolutely divine. Like a getting a massage in my mind. I know what I'm doing this weekend.
    - tomrod 5y ago
      I use sudoku for this as well!
- rakejake 5y ago
  Yeah, I guess it's like free throws or dribbling for basketball players. Not too easy, not too hard, keeps you "in rhythm" for when you want to ramp your attention back.
abakh 5y ago
odiroot 5y ago
Better than fidgeting with fingers. Sometimes I just can't stop doing it during long meetings.

Jensson 5y ago

> It’s also fascinating how much the social part overlaps with challenges faced by Autistic people Autistic people are bad at reading people, ADHD are bad at focusing on people so don't read them in most cases but have no problems at all in social situations when they are focused on them. They are different things. Though I am sure many bad psychologists diagnose inattentive people with autism even though they really have ADHD.

lobocinza 5y ago
You can be both.
steveklabnik 5y ago
My understanding is that it's an ongoing discussion, similar to how "Asperger syndrome" was considered distinct, but is now considered part of the autism spectrum. (n.b. I know less about this than ADHD, so I could be wrong here) Similarly, it used to be "ADD" and then now is more generally known as ADHD, and even more recently than that, specifically is now considered something with three major "presentations", ADHD-I (inattentive), ADHD-HI (hyperactive-impulsive), and ADHD-C (combined). We're still learning about the brain, and what these sorts of things are, and how they interact. My understanding is that many folks feel there's some sort of relationship here, but the exact details are murky and unknown. It may just be a comorbidity.
chrsig 5y ago
I don't have numbers handy, but the last time I looked the overlap of people with ASD that also have ADHD is...pretty substantial (The inverse is not -- it's still a common comorbidity, but not nearly skewed as much) So if you have an autistic person that's inattentive, I believe the chances are they'll get both diagnosis.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  It's also the case that not being able to focus in social situations leads to an aura of aloofness and disconnectedness. I've met plenty of people with an ADHD/autism diagnosis who have no problem reading people. They just don't have friends for whatever reason, which gets them put in the autism box.

caddemon 5y ago

I think it's much more likely that ADHD is N different things and Autism is M different things, where there is some overlap between N and M. I get what you're saying, I just think in order to really progress how we understand/treat these issues it will be important to figure out how to more accurately split them apart rather than grouping more things together.

dr_dshiv 5y ago
You might find the "rdoc" an interesting approach from the National Institute of Mental Health. In contrast to the DSM, the rdoc isnt a way of splitting and labeling disorders as distinct entities (diagnoses). Rather, it looks at different dimensions of disorders to identify the best approaches to treatment. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/research-funded-by-nimh/rdoc/resources/rdoc-frequently-asked-questions-faq https://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/research-funded-by-nimh/rd...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sideshowb 5y ago
Seems to me most psychiatry diagnoses symptoms not causes at present. Imagine if you went to hospital with chest pains. They ask some questions then say "yeah, sounds like you have chest pains. Try this medicine it sometimes helps people with chest pains" But was it a broken rib or heart attack? Who knows. Hopefully this will change in future.
gremlinsinc 5y ago
in a way these disorders are fake ... I'm ADHD diagnosed and I think also asd. not saying they aren't real... I'm saying they're as real as an apple is really an apple as in would it be an apple if somebody didn't label it as one? diseases of the body have very specific symptoms but also an underlying cause injury, cell damage, virus, bacteria... mental health isn't just the brain... we can't tie consciousness just to the brain...I mean it could be something in our entire central nervous system... all these things are... are buckets... imagine you're fishing and you throw in a bunch of similar fish into a bucket and separate them into two big buckets as similar as possible... you might still have 4 different species of fish per bucket... that's all mental health diagnoses feel like ..a big bucket because everyone behaves differently in different circumstances under different stimulus... were you exposed to lead recently and are more aggressive? are your hormones elevated or lowered than norms? all these little chemical signals going through the brain shape the consciousness to a star or a square but it's not really a star or square... it just closer to a star and square and it's soft around the edges so you can push it into the star shape diagnoses hole even though it's different ... my point is it's all a spectrum and you can't be on the spectrum with aids, cancer, COVID. you have it or you don't... you can have more serious cases or not but there's a definite... solidity to what is infecting you... so personally I think it'd be better if we made smaller buckets that were more about labeling what our symptoms are... then treat those specifically better and maybe have a few broader treatments that treat maybe a trifecta of symptoms... I'm not sure if my point is coming across... basically mental disorders are real but at the same time they're not... because it's an illness if the consciousness.. of thought... and emotions... and the smallest imbalance in even our gut which has brain cells can cause certain reactions...

jprete 5y ago

ADHD and ASD share some overlap, but they are definitely not the same disorder. ADHD is an executive function disorder and you could usefully label it as being deficits in these skills: * Delay your responses to situations long enough to come up with a good and controlled long-term plan * Pattern-match past situations onto the present situation to guide your current response * Mentally tell yourself what to do and have it stick * Manage your emotions towards your long-term interests * Imagine and evaluate multiple possible future outcomes There are other ways to describe it - e.g. I didn't mention short-term memory - but this is the flavor. ASD is completely different. ASD is (I believe) a predictive processing disorder. Normal brain processing involves each layer of the brain predicting what the lower layers will report, and "blending in" all of the minor mistakes in the predictions. Large mistakes are literally surprising and uncomfortable, and push the brain to learn (i.e. change its predictions). Normal brains are constantly ignoring small prediction errors and are very tolerant of ambiguous, uncertain, or new situations. An ASD brain cannot blend in the minor mistakes as well, so it spends a lifetime perpetually surprised and overstimulated by every event that is even slightly unpredictable, and is fairly intolerant of ambiguous, uncertain, or new situations.

giantg2 5y ago
"An ASD brain cannot blend in the minor mistakes as well, so it spends a lifetime perpetually surprised and overstimulated by every event that is even slightly unpredictable, and is fairly intolerant of ambiguous, uncertain, or new situations." Wow, it's like you know me. It also makes sense that I found many of the structure oriented things in the accommodations useful/necessary (templates, checklists, email folders,, etc).
eyelidlessness 5y ago
I’ll probably regret replying tired, because this isn’t me at my best but… this is what I experience, what people I know with ADHD experience, and what a lot of literature describes. I have a hard time even reading it as a potentially different experience.
- ghusbands 5y ago

octagons 5y ago

> Which I increasingly feel confident in the idea that there’s no meaningful distinction and ADHD should/likely eventually will be considered part of the spectrum I’ve recently been pondering this point myself as I come across more acquaintances, friends, or colleagues who have been clinically diagnosed with ADHD after my own diagnosis. It’s certainly nice to be able to commiserate on some of the more common symptoms, but each of us has had to compensate (or not compensate) in a unique way throughout our lives. I’m always interested in how this manifests differently and affects one’s career or other major components of modern life. I agree that a lot of what’s suggested by this article are very ubiquitous, (sometimes) easier-said-than-done tools and strategies for those that struggle with ADHD. I wasn’t personally surprised by anything here. I am equally frustrated by the lack of availability of an app or planner that lets me “manage my meetings and tasks” that truly meets my needs as someone struggling with executive function disorder and depression caused by the lack of this executive function. I’d love to hear any examples. I have been playing around with pomodoro/task apps (Focus and Focus Keeper) but they have some very odd shortcomings, and Focus wants $40 USD/year to continue use past the free trial.

devmor 5y ago

> Which I increasingly feel confident in the idea that there’s no meaningful distinction and ADHD should/likely eventually will be considered part of the spectrum I'd disagree with this for one single but very important factor - Symptoms of ADHD can often be totally and completely mitigated with medication.

tremon 5y ago
Has it been conclusively proven that medication has no effect on ASD patients then? (Genuinely asking, I don't know the answer)

causality0 5y ago

happily stop or mute my mic if the clicking sound is disruptive I've gotten tremendous results from switching to a silent-click mouse.

lowdose 5y ago

Just get th mix of chemicals right. I know the upper limit for an adult is 4x 20mg dexamphetamine retard (20x tintin) + 4 x 80mg of Elvanse. To relax my doctor prescribes 2x 20mg of Xanax. That’s per day. For me it works to smoke some kush in the evening. With this combo I’m in hyperfocus all day which means I can read a book a day. I do not recommend this mixture to everybody. But my impulsiveness is gone which included the need to take mdma and party in the weekend. If a specialist is referring to current academic research that is solely based on children. You can remove the glass sealing by saying you didn’t expect communistic politics in balancing your productivity multiplier from a professional is highly effective. This is also called the Deutsche Bank recipe.

DarylZero 5y ago
[flagged]
99_00 5y ago
>You can remove the glass sealing by saying you didn’t expect communistic politics in balancing your productivity multiplier from a professional is highly effective. This is also called the Deutsche Bank recipe. Can you explain this in a different way because I don't understand your point and want to