5 ms·

The Slate article doesn't directly state this but does mention that many of the safety rules have been in place for decades - some since the 1940s. Presumably -

The Slate article doesn't directly state this but does mention that many of the safety rules have been in place for decades - some since the 1940s. Presumably - construction materials + fire fighting methods have improved dramatically in that time so buildings are much safer now. I dont think its unreasonable to want very safe buildings but clear that by the rules staying the same means they are using a different risk calculation then when they were created.

ruined 5y ago
i wouldn't really expect that to be the case. we've got a lot more plastic furnishing/building materials now and perhaps there's tradeoffs but it's still basically just condensed oil. think of your couch as candyfloss gasoline. most residential structures are wood frame, even apartment buildings are often just a few wooden-frame stories on top of a single-story concrete podium. internal firewalls are probably the most significant improvement. you still don't want to be trapped on the wrong side of one with no way down.
emodendroket 5y ago
> Presumably - construction materials + fire fighting methods have improved dramatically in that time so buildings are much safer now. I wouldn't be so sure. Fire prevention methods have improved, but instead of booking the safety gains, this has been seen as a reason to allow wooden structures that previously would not have been legal to build (the famous 5-over-1).
- handmodel 5y ago
  FWIW fire deaths have gone down by half since the 70s. Perhaps you could attribute this to fire alarms or better automatic sprinklers but overall this is a very good trend given population trends. I'm also fairly certain that better fire retardant materials are used now and that's why wooden structures are allowed. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Trend-in-US-fire-deaths-11_fig2_312511670 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Trend-in-US-fire-deaths-...
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I read a lot about these in local news because I used to live in a town in Massachusetts where one of those buildings burned down in construction. According to what I read, it's mostly the sprinklers that make it safe (or at least viewed that way) -- before those go in they're a big tinder box. This trend really took off with building code changes in 2009 though, so 1970 might not be the right starting point.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    Battery powered smoke detectors as we now know them came out in the 70s.
    - handmodel 5y ago
      I guess my larger point is if risk of death by fire gets cut in half because of variables other than extra staircases - then the benefit of adding extra staircases gets cut in half while the cost remains the same (or even increases).
      - kube-system 5y ago
        Assuming that they are independent factors. In many instances, a life may be saved by the interaction of two variables. Signaling and egress often contribute in complementary functions.

ruined 5y ago

i wouldn't really expect that to be the case. we've got a lot more plastic furnishing/building materials now and perhaps there's tradeoffs but it's still basically just condensed oil. think of your couch as candyfloss gasoline. most residential structures are wood frame, even apartment buildings are often just a few wooden-frame stories on top of a single-story concrete podium. internal firewalls are probably the most significant improvement. you still don't want to be trapped on the wrong side of one with no way down.

emodendroket 5y ago

> Presumably - construction materials + fire fighting methods have improved dramatically in that time so buildings are much safer now. I wouldn't be so sure. Fire prevention methods have improved, but instead of booking the safety gains, this has been seen as a reason to allow wooden structures that previously would not have been legal to build (the famous 5-over-1).

handmodel 5y ago
FWIW fire deaths have gone down by half since the 70s. Perhaps you could attribute this to fire alarms or better automatic sprinklers but overall this is a very good trend given population trends. I'm also fairly certain that better fire retardant materials are used now and that's why wooden structures are allowed. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Trend-in-US-fire-deaths-11_fig2_312511670 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Trend-in-US-fire-deaths-...
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I read a lot about these in local news because I used to live in a town in Massachusetts where one of those buildings burned down in construction. According to what I read, it's mostly the sprinklers that make it safe (or at least viewed that way) -- before those go in they're a big tinder box. This trend really took off with building code changes in 2009 though, so 1970 might not be the right starting point.
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  Battery powered smoke detectors as we now know them came out in the 70s.
  - handmodel 5y ago
    I guess my larger point is if risk of death by fire gets cut in half because of variables other than extra staircases - then the benefit of adding extra staircases gets cut in half while the cost remains the same (or even increases).
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Assuming that they are independent factors. In many instances, a life may be saved by the interaction of two variables. Signaling and egress often contribute in complementary functions.