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Even though you're right from the perspective you mentioned I want to disagree with you from the PoV of a regular developer. Scala is not "Java vnext" and has a

Even though you're right from the perspective you mentioned I want to disagree with you from the PoV of a regular developer. Scala is not "Java vnext" and has a learning curve rivaling C++. Kotlin comes naturally to Java developers and feels like Scala-flavored syntactic sugar. But unfortunately (e.g. I don't want to learn another ORM library on the JVM) they seem to be growing their own ecosystem indeed.

pjmlp 5y ago
My perspective applies to Scala as well, to any guest language on JVM or any platform. One lesson for Borland days is that I rather use the languages that are on the box than dealing with extra complexity of third parties in the platform. My point of view is not always what wins out, and there is good to learn new approaches in programming that can be latter applied to the daily tools, but that is how I see things.
- 62951413 5y ago
  As a very pragmatic approach it's likely the most reasonable one. But it doesn't make it easier emotionally. It's like forcing yourself to use golang knowing fully well that you'd suffer through early-day-Java-level inferiority all over again. The Borland example is confusing. The way I remember it their Pascal and C++ support was equally official. BC++3 was comparable to TP6 though the latter was less resource hungry (and at <700KB fit a single FD). Then for many years Delphi was well ahead of C++ Builder. But in the end professionally C++ skills were much more valuable. Ten years ago I hoped that ORCL would acquire Typesafe and make Scala supported officially the way MSFT did with F#. Instead they left the space open for Kotlin to appear. And then antagonized GOOG into making it a juggernaut. There must be some Innovator's Dilemma-style explanation here but as a developer I regret it. As a side-note I believe Martin made a huge mistake by allowing Haskell fans to highjack the narrative. His original strategy reminds me Elon's a little. Make industry finance and popularize high-impact type system research by using its impressive end result. Investing in Scala ten years ago prepared me well for Kotlin and modern Java (not to mention a few years of data engineering jobs around Spark and ML).

pjmlp 5y ago

My perspective applies to Scala as well, to any guest language on JVM or any platform. One lesson for Borland days is that I rather use the languages that are on the box than dealing with extra complexity of third parties in the platform. My point of view is not always what wins out, and there is good to learn new approaches in programming that can be latter applied to the daily tools, but that is how I see things.

62951413 5y ago
As a very pragmatic approach it's likely the most reasonable one. But it doesn't make it easier emotionally. It's like forcing yourself to use golang knowing fully well that you'd suffer through early-day-Java-level inferiority all over again. The Borland example is confusing. The way I remember it their Pascal and C++ support was equally official. BC++3 was comparable to TP6 though the latter was less resource hungry (and at <700KB fit a single FD). Then for many years Delphi was well ahead of C++ Builder. But in the end professionally C++ skills were much more valuable. Ten years ago I hoped that ORCL would acquire Typesafe and make Scala supported officially the way MSFT did with F#. Instead they left the space open for Kotlin to appear. And then antagonized GOOG into making it a juggernaut. There must be some Innovator's Dilemma-style explanation here but as a developer I regret it. As a side-note I believe Martin made a huge mistake by allowing Haskell fans to highjack the narrative. His original strategy reminds me Elon's a little. Make industry finance and popularize high-impact type system research by using its impressive end result. Investing in Scala ten years ago prepared me well for Kotlin and modern Java (not to mention a few years of data engineering jobs around Spark and ML).