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A security camera in the building showed that Tanimoto tossed a bag, probably containing petrol, at the emergency exit. Tape is also believed to have been used
by stickfigure 5y ago
A security camera in the building showed that Tanimoto tossed a bag, probably containing petrol, at the emergency exit. Tape is also believed to have been used to impede the use of the door. It is believed this was done so that clinic occupants would have a hard time evacuating. Investigators also found evidence of additional traps in the building.[21][22] The suspect was found to possess a knife, and blocked a person who tried to run back towards the elevator. The victims, with the path to the exits blocked by fire, went into inner windowless rooms in the back of the clinic where they died.[16]
When you have someone deliberately setting fires and blocking the escape routes with a knife, you have bigger problems than just one stairwell.
- vernie 5y agoSimilar thing happened at Kyoto Animation in 2019 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack)
- emodendroket 5y agoSure, but you could say that about any fire where a bunch of people died. There are always "bigger problems" or else there wouldn't be a fire.
- xboxnolifes 5y agoThe point is, since it was deliberate, the person could almost as easily blocked both stairs. It's not comparable to an accidental fire that potentially impress a single staircase
- emodendroket 5y agoI disagree that they could have done this just as easily. One person can only guard one way.
- bluefirebrand 5y agoYeah but one person who is setting fires could torch a stairwell, effectively blocking it without being there.
- aaron695 5y agoPeople setting these fires are not experts. Let's say a lot of them are garbage and you only hear about the rare occasions it works. Let's say 10% of the time the fire is good enough to kill. Two stair wells means only 1% of the time you get a kill. Lighting two fires is also harder, you need more planning and stuff. So that probably equals out a bit for the better fire lighters. If it's Mossad doing it then sure it's possibly similar.
- lenkite 5y ago"Police quoted witnesses who saw a man walking into the clinic with a paper bag, which he put on the floor, right next to a heater by the reception desk, and kicked it. Liquid poured out, caught fire and the whole floor was in flames and smoke." Don't really need to be an expert in starting fires.
- picsao 5y ago
- dapids 5y agoSeriously? We are talking about fire here. Set it and forget it, doesn't require constant attention ...
- bobthepanda 5y agoThat also happens, or effectively happens. Part of modern US stairwell regulation also learned from 9/11, where they found out it wasn't a great idea to have all the required stairwells very close to each other either.
- lazide 5y ago2 stairways are much harder to block than one, especially if they are at opposite ends of the structure. One person will struggle to keep them blocked. That’s a whole lot better than 1 stairwell!
- pas 5y agoWhy? Lock one, go to the other, douse it with something flammable, light it. Anyway. Most of the world does not go up in flames regularly, despite having not having this regulation.
- pessimizer 5y agoWhy mitigate against fire at all? If the standard is that most of the world has to be burning for that to be practical, it'll never be practical.
- pas 5y agoFire safety has tremendous value, but it should mandate results not specific methods.
- lazide 5y agoFire extinguishers are remarkably effective at opening locked doors, FYI. And a surprising number of people are not only aware of this fact, but remember where the fire extinguishers are. Some folks would get stuck and not get out, but it generally requires dedicated eyes on a crowd if you want to keep them inside something for any length of time. Hence prison guards, locks being a dedicated profession, etc.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y agoTo be fair, one person has less of a chance of blocking all 5 exits if that many exists and they're spaced out well enough
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y agoSo how many exits are needed for extremely rare circumstances? 5 stairwells plus two elevator shafts could take up >80% of floor space in a lot of high rise buildings...
- fivea 5y ago> So how many exits are needed for extremely rare circumstances? Keep in mind that the bread and butter of engineering is "extremely rare circumstances". In civil engineering, infrastructure is designed with 100 year floods and 50 year seismic events in mind. Blocking the only exit does not come even close to be a rare event.
- ineedasername 5y agoYou don't have to plan for malice, just plan for a fire where it is probably a lot less likely for exits at both sides of the building to be blocked.
- fivea 5y ago> When you have someone deliberately setting fires and blocking the escape routes with a knife, you have bigger problems than just one stairwell. The software world is well versed in the concept of a single point of failure, and the importance of eliminating it and mitigating any chance. And yet here we are downplaying a critical design problem because it was a single point of failure?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Sharlin 5y agoAs always, you have to balance the risk of a crazy trap-setting knifeman attack with the (opportunity) cost of building additional escape routes.
- pessimizer 5y agoNot just the risk of a crazy trap-setting knifeman attack, but the risk of other things that are likely to block a single exit (as fire sometimes does.)
- Sharlin 5y agoYes, but it looks like that sort of events (where additionally you have to evacuate rather than shelter inside your apartment) seem to be exceedingly rare, given that lack of a second stairwell has not been a problem at all in several Western countries.
- fivea 5y ago> As always, you have to balance the risk of a crazy trap-setting knifeman attack with the (opportunity) cost of building additional escape routes. A "crazy trap-setting knifeman attack" is not the only scenario that results in a blocked exit trapping people inside the building in a life-threatening situation. Think about it for a second. Imagine, for instance, that a fire breaks out for any reason. Is this unthinkable? And how do you factor in emergency response personnel trying to go up the same stairs that are the only way out of people trapped in the building? We should not forget past lessons for no reason.
- nkrisc 5y agoIt doesn’t matter if it’s a person with a knife blocking the exit, or fallen debris. An exit can be blocked by anything, that’s why it’s important to have multiple escape routes.