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By signing without having read all of the contract, you are voluntarily forfeiting your right and agree to be bound by whatever is in there. Basically you are

By signing without having read all of the contract, you are voluntarily forfeiting your right and agree to be bound by whatever is in there. Basically you are signing a blank cheque. Therefore, to protect consumers, modern legal systems put limits to what T&Cs may contain (everything past the red lines is nonbinding)

walrus01 5y ago
interestingly I have seen the UI design choice to prevent you from agreeing to the T&C unless you at least scroll all the way to the bottom of it (not a guarantee you've read it, however). noticed this recently with the official apple app to find nearby airtags on android. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-app-airtag-search-tracker-detect-find-my https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-a...
- MereInterest 5y ago
  There's also UI trends in the opposite direction, encouraging users not to read a contract at all. After "signing" a location, DocuSign will automatically scroll to the next place requiring a "signature". In order to actually read the contract, you must scroll back to the earlier location. Or, the inability to mark up a contract while going through it. With a physical contract, changes can be written in and initialed. In DocuSign, any changes require an out-of-band communication, adjustment by the party preparing the contract, and re-issuing. There's no reason that it couldn't be handled in-band, with changes inserted, highlighted, and sent back for the other party to sign. Instead, it only presents the option of signing as-is.
  - walrus01 5y ago
    that's just terrible all around. I'm glad that at least some docusign competitors exist. Docusign pricing is also nuts for what you get. It does seem to have become entrenched as the default choice by office admin people who don't know anything else exists. you know something has gone wrong when a subscription based adobe product has better pricing than docusign.
  - dannyw 5y ago
    DocuSign is for contract execution. You shouldn't send a packet unless both parties are willing to execute.
- alasdair_ 5y ago
  Without the forced scrolling, it would be reasonable to argue that the contract agreed to was the contract displayed on the screen, especially if the signer is a novice computer user.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  Broadcom support site does this. > BY OPENING THE SOFTWARE PACKAGE, CLICKING ON THE "ACCEPT" BUTTON [skip] > Please scroll through the text to read this agreement. Also this sometimes were played in the install kits for a various software, both with scrolling and even a humourous "WOW! Did you really read our EULA in 1.59 seconds?!"
treis 5y ago
We do that because it's good public policy for the counterparty to be able to rely on the signature as evidence of meeting of minds. But if both parties know that it hasn't happened why should it be enforced?

walrus01 5y ago

interestingly I have seen the UI design choice to prevent you from agreeing to the T&C unless you at least scroll all the way to the bottom of it (not a guarantee you've read it, however). noticed this recently with the official apple app to find nearby airtags on android. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-app-airtag-search-tracker-detect-find-my https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-a...

MereInterest 5y ago
There's also UI trends in the opposite direction, encouraging users not to read a contract at all. After "signing" a location, DocuSign will automatically scroll to the next place requiring a "signature". In order to actually read the contract, you must scroll back to the earlier location. Or, the inability to mark up a contract while going through it. With a physical contract, changes can be written in and initialed. In DocuSign, any changes require an out-of-band communication, adjustment by the party preparing the contract, and re-issuing. There's no reason that it couldn't be handled in-band, with changes inserted, highlighted, and sent back for the other party to sign. Instead, it only presents the option of signing as-is.
- walrus01 5y ago
  that's just terrible all around. I'm glad that at least some docusign competitors exist. Docusign pricing is also nuts for what you get. It does seem to have become entrenched as the default choice by office admin people who don't know anything else exists. you know something has gone wrong when a subscription based adobe product has better pricing than docusign.
- dannyw 5y ago
  DocuSign is for contract execution. You shouldn't send a packet unless both parties are willing to execute.
alasdair_ 5y ago
Without the forced scrolling, it would be reasonable to argue that the contract agreed to was the contract displayed on the screen, especially if the signer is a novice computer user.
justsomehnguy 5y ago
Broadcom support site does this. > BY OPENING THE SOFTWARE PACKAGE, CLICKING ON THE "ACCEPT" BUTTON [skip] > Please scroll through the text to read this agreement. Also this sometimes were played in the install kits for a various software, both with scrolling and even a humourous "WOW! Did you really read our EULA in 1.59 seconds?!"

treis 5y ago

We do that because it's good public policy for the counterparty to be able to rely on the signature as evidence of meeting of minds. But if both parties know that it hasn't happened why should it be enforced?