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We waste a lot of time trying to teach teenagers languages in high school. I learnt French, very poorly. Have retained almost nothing to this day, what a waste

We waste a lot of time trying to teach teenagers languages in high school. I learnt French, very poorly. Have retained almost nothing to this day, what a waste of time. I believe Latin is still offered in my high school system... A guaranteed waste of time. I truly believe study of foreign language should almost be reserved for people who will be living in a country with that tongue. Using it everyday and getting good returns on all that grind. More generally, we should be be more economical with our effort and time. "Why am I learning this? " Should be asked more often. I feel the cultural pull for pointless learning on other subjects. I am sure we all do. "I should study some physics. Read Feynman's lectures." But to what end, I don't know. My life will not be appreciably better for learning more about electro-magnetism. There's a yearning in us that pointless education must satisfy. A dream of a better life that you can pretend to be working towards.

CogitoCogito 5y ago
> We waste a lot of time trying to teach teenagers languages in high school. I learnt French, very poorly. Have retained almost nothing to this day, what a waste of time. Does that mean the learning was in vain? I’ve probably forgotten 90% of what I learned in high school other than math. Does that mean most of my education was a waste of time?
- maxwell_xander 5y ago
  >Does that mean the learning was in vain? I’ve probably forgotten 90% of what I learned in high school other than math. Does that mean most of my education was a waste of time? Did the things you learn change you in some other fundamental way, that only learning those things could (ie you could come to a conclusion and forget the exact process that brought you to that conclusion, and thus the process was worth learning even though now forgotten)? If not, then that learning must have been in vain, almost per the definition of vain, right?
- guy98238710 5y ago
  > Does that mean most of my education was a waste of time? Yes.
- jeofken 5y ago
  Public school is much a place to dump kids so that both parents can work full time - this is how it’s utilised in reality. Otherwise there would be a cutthroat market for parents education spending - but almost everyone leaves the child in the closest school they don’t have to pay for. Some would say separating state and school is equal or greater in importance, than separating state and church.
  - CogitoCogito 5y ago
    I went to public schools all the way through undergrad and they were all excellent. I don't really know what would have been improved by those schools being private.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    I think there's a pretty cutthroat market for education spending even on the public schools -- people shop for homes based on school districts.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Actually it's not really "education spending" it's more about which group of peers you put your kids with. Whiter is more expensive.
- guy98238710 5y ago
  To be fair, schools offer a lot of subjects to give you a taste of several academic disciplines. You are expected to choose one or two you like and discard the rest. If it is done well, you will enjoy the process. Having fun is not a waste of time.
- JimTheMan 5y ago
  Probably. And if you could accurately predict the lack of function after learning something, you'd probably dump that subject no? And you can do that with language instruction in most cases. Hell, maybe make language instruction more hardcore and immersive for those who need or actively seek it. For everyone else, it's not worth pursuing 98% of the time.
maxwell_xander 5y ago
>I believe Latin is still offered in my high school system... A guaranteed waste of time. Quomodo loqueris tu cum daemoniis sine latinam te scire??
- schoen 5y ago
  Homines autem si Latine nescient, daemonesne potestatibus suis uti poterunt ut linguas hodiernas rapide discant? Daemones ignavos vel impotentes putas?
rjsw 5y ago
I felt that learning Latin helped with learning French.
jeofken 5y ago
For learning Latin the book Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata by Hans Ørberg is wonderful. https://youtu.be/_Zt19wzsW-c https://youtu.be/_Zt19wzsW-c Felicem natalem Christi
- koeng 5y ago
  I am currently working through this book, transcribing as I go along, inspired from the Dowling Method (kinda similar feel to "Learn Python the Hard Way"). Highly, highly, highly recommend. https://www.wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm https://www.wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm
tomcooks 5y ago
You're not pretending to be working towards a better life, you're giving it a try. We're born clueless about what's the best investment in the limited amount of seconds we're blessed to have. Calling experimentation on what life has to offer a "waste of time" means you found no enjoyment in learning this specific subject, nor in the doors it unlocks for you (you could be having an apero on the French Riviera, enjoying great wine and compliments from locals for having invested energies into learning their language; or a well paid job in Geneva; or reading the Count of Montecristo in its original format). While I understand your concern about time economization, I think there's and implied slack in how you test what's best for you. As long as you're actively invested in spending your time, and not just let it vanish one second at a time, I believe any activity is worthy of experimentation. Otherwise what's the point of not killing oneself - will you fight? Or will you perish like a dog?
- throwaway55421 5y ago
  > As long as you're actively invested in spending your time, and not just let it vanish one second at a time, I believe any activity is worthy of experimentation. This is a great sentiment and one that lines up well with my philosophy in life, thank you for summarising it so concisely!
- presentation 5y ago
  Beautiful sentiment that I agree with - I greatly enjoyed my Spanish class, got decent enough at it to have good experiences traveling in Spanish speaking countries, and ended up much more open to living abroad (which I’m doing now) and have language learning as one of my main hobbies. Was it useful for business or academically? Not particularly, but still very worth my while, and others have different experiences that resonated with them too. That all said, instruction quality is a big differentiator; I agree that most classes taught at schools are pretty miserably bad, so from that perspective, point taken.
FinanceAnon 5y ago
Imagine a world where everyone speaks only the language of the country where they were born, and doesn't learn any foreign languagues. On your other point - is browsing HN the most economic and effective way to spend your time? I think learning a language or studying physics would be more useful. Do you not waste time browsing internet, watching Netflix, playing games?
- JimTheMan 5y ago
  I'm advocating for language instruction where it is likely the person will use it. Not the end of language instruction. Most people don't have fun learning a language, especially those forced through school. 98% don't learn it to fluency. But if you enjoy it, more power to you.

CogitoCogito 5y ago

> We waste a lot of time trying to teach teenagers languages in high school. I learnt French, very poorly. Have retained almost nothing to this day, what a waste of time. Does that mean the learning was in vain? I’ve probably forgotten 90% of what I learned in high school other than math. Does that mean most of my education was a waste of time?

maxwell_xander 5y ago
>Does that mean the learning was in vain? I’ve probably forgotten 90% of what I learned in high school other than math. Does that mean most of my education was a waste of time? Did the things you learn change you in some other fundamental way, that only learning those things could (ie you could come to a conclusion and forget the exact process that brought you to that conclusion, and thus the process was worth learning even though now forgotten)? If not, then that learning must have been in vain, almost per the definition of vain, right?
guy98238710 5y ago
> Does that mean most of my education was a waste of time? Yes.
jeofken 5y ago
Public school is much a place to dump kids so that both parents can work full time - this is how it’s utilised in reality. Otherwise there would be a cutthroat market for parents education spending - but almost everyone leaves the child in the closest school they don’t have to pay for. Some would say separating state and school is equal or greater in importance, than separating state and church.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  I went to public schools all the way through undergrad and they were all excellent. I don't really know what would have been improved by those schools being private.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  I think there's a pretty cutthroat market for education spending even on the public schools -- people shop for homes based on school districts.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    Actually it's not really "education spending" it's more about which group of peers you put your kids with. Whiter is more expensive.
guy98238710 5y ago
To be fair, schools offer a lot of subjects to give you a taste of several academic disciplines. You are expected to choose one or two you like and discard the rest. If it is done well, you will enjoy the process. Having fun is not a waste of time.
JimTheMan 5y ago
Probably. And if you could accurately predict the lack of function after learning something, you'd probably dump that subject no? And you can do that with language instruction in most cases. Hell, maybe make language instruction more hardcore and immersive for those who need or actively seek it. For everyone else, it's not worth pursuing 98% of the time.

maxwell_xander 5y ago

>I believe Latin is still offered in my high school system... A guaranteed waste of time. Quomodo loqueris tu cum daemoniis sine latinam te scire??

schoen 5y ago
Homines autem si Latine nescient, daemonesne potestatibus suis uti poterunt ut linguas hodiernas rapide discant? Daemones ignavos vel impotentes putas?

rjsw 5y ago

I felt that learning Latin helped with learning French.

jeofken 5y ago

For learning Latin the book Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata by Hans Ørberg is wonderful. https://youtu.be/_Zt19wzsW-c https://youtu.be/_Zt19wzsW-c Felicem natalem Christi

koeng 5y ago
I am currently working through this book, transcribing as I go along, inspired from the Dowling Method (kinda similar feel to "Learn Python the Hard Way"). Highly, highly, highly recommend. https://www.wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm https://www.wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm

tomcooks 5y ago

You're not pretending to be working towards a better life, you're giving it a try. We're born clueless about what's the best investment in the limited amount of seconds we're blessed to have. Calling experimentation on what life has to offer a "waste of time" means you found no enjoyment in learning this specific subject, nor in the doors it unlocks for you (you could be having an apero on the French Riviera, enjoying great wine and compliments from locals for having invested energies into learning their language; or a well paid job in Geneva; or reading the Count of Montecristo in its original format). While I understand your concern about time economization, I think there's and implied slack in how you test what's best for you. As long as you're actively invested in spending your time, and not just let it vanish one second at a time, I believe any activity is worthy of experimentation. Otherwise what's the point of not killing oneself - will you fight? Or will you perish like a dog?

throwaway55421 5y ago
> As long as you're actively invested in spending your time, and not just let it vanish one second at a time, I believe any activity is worthy of experimentation. This is a great sentiment and one that lines up well with my philosophy in life, thank you for summarising it so concisely!
presentation 5y ago
Beautiful sentiment that I agree with - I greatly enjoyed my Spanish class, got decent enough at it to have good experiences traveling in Spanish speaking countries, and ended up much more open to living abroad (which I’m doing now) and have language learning as one of my main hobbies. Was it useful for business or academically? Not particularly, but still very worth my while, and others have different experiences that resonated with them too. That all said, instruction quality is a big differentiator; I agree that most classes taught at schools are pretty miserably bad, so from that perspective, point taken.

FinanceAnon 5y ago

Imagine a world where everyone speaks only the language of the country where they were born, and doesn't learn any foreign languagues. On your other point - is browsing HN the most economic and effective way to spend your time? I think learning a language or studying physics would be more useful. Do you not waste time browsing internet, watching Netflix, playing games?

JimTheMan 5y ago
I'm advocating for language instruction where it is likely the person will use it. Not the end of language instruction. Most people don't have fun learning a language, especially those forced through school. 98% don't learn it to fluency. But if you enjoy it, more power to you.