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> I would feel extremely comfortable banning those head coverings from all universities, if not all public venues...From our point of view, allowing religion to

> I would feel extremely comfortable banning those head coverings from all universities, if not all public venues...From our point of view, allowing religion to exist is treating it with tolerance. If saying "either stop adhering to your religion or you cannot go to university/exist in public" is tolerance, what is intolerance? Is everything short of prison, internment camps, torture, and execution tolerance in your point of view? Also, if a government tells religious people "we are going to make your life very difficult, but you should really be thankful to us that we are not outright destroying you", they should not be surprised when they don't end up being thankful and instead vote for the other guy. That's one of the reasons Erdogan is now in power.

Bayart 5y ago
The assumption that asking for the removal of what is essentially discriminatory somptuary laws amounts to asking for apostasy is your own. Internal religious regulations have no bearing on the law and whether or not they're essential to religious practice is of no consequence to civil society. Keep in mind I'm referring to a system where universities are public institutions, emanations of the State, rather than private foundations as is usually the case in the US.
- worik 5y ago
  Why would your secularism turn you into fashion police? Why cannot a person wear a headscarf (it does not obscure their mouth or eyes so does not inhibit communication) if they want to? For what ever private reason they feel they want to? I know people who wear them for non-religious reasons. Will they be exempt from your rules about fashion? People get told all the time that what they wear is unacceptable by others in power, and it is an abuse of power. This is particularly true for women and a "headscarf" ban another example of blatant misogyny. What is particularly offensive is it is said it is one for "liberating" those women. Often (usually not always) it is non Islamic people lecturing Islamists. The fight against misogyny in Islam is a fight for Islamic women. When there is a cry from Islamic women for non-Islamists to set fashion laws for Islamic women to obey (and not just the odd lone voice) then maybe, possible you might have a point. Is that ever going to happen? I do not think that Islamic women need misogynist, sexist, Islamophobic, theophobic, bigoted, and patronising rules and punishment. To liberate them, no less! Perhaps they need the opposite
- zarzavat 5y ago
  This kind of nationalism is way more "religious" than wanting to wear a headscarf. Between one person who wants to dress in a certain way and another person who wants to control how a large number of other people dress because they perceive it as a threat to their ideology, who is more extreme?

Bayart 5y ago

The assumption that asking for the removal of what is essentially discriminatory somptuary laws amounts to asking for apostasy is your own. Internal religious regulations have no bearing on the law and whether or not they're essential to religious practice is of no consequence to civil society. Keep in mind I'm referring to a system where universities are public institutions, emanations of the State, rather than private foundations as is usually the case in the US.

worik 5y ago
Why would your secularism turn you into fashion police? Why cannot a person wear a headscarf (it does not obscure their mouth or eyes so does not inhibit communication) if they want to? For what ever private reason they feel they want to? I know people who wear them for non-religious reasons. Will they be exempt from your rules about fashion? People get told all the time that what they wear is unacceptable by others in power, and it is an abuse of power. This is particularly true for women and a "headscarf" ban another example of blatant misogyny. What is particularly offensive is it is said it is one for "liberating" those women. Often (usually not always) it is non Islamic people lecturing Islamists. The fight against misogyny in Islam is a fight for Islamic women. When there is a cry from Islamic women for non-Islamists to set fashion laws for Islamic women to obey (and not just the odd lone voice) then maybe, possible you might have a point. Is that ever going to happen? I do not think that Islamic women need misogynist, sexist, Islamophobic, theophobic, bigoted, and patronising rules and punishment. To liberate them, no less! Perhaps they need the opposite
zarzavat 5y ago
This kind of nationalism is way more "religious" than wanting to wear a headscarf. Between one person who wants to dress in a certain way and another person who wants to control how a large number of other people dress because they perceive it as a threat to their ideology, who is more extreme?