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> Sending your mail yourself is the real hard part No, having quality spam and fraud filtering, and quality security, that you host yourself, is by far the muc

> Sending your mail yourself is the real hard part No, having quality spam and fraud filtering, and quality security, that you host yourself, is by far the much harder problem. I would argue that outsourcing your email to Proton or Tutanota is not running your own "artisanal" email server. By the way, even with those email providers, I still have terrible spam and fraud emails getting through filters that I never would have seen with my GMail.

tjoff 5y ago
Well, on the flip side unless you constantly check your spam folder (which pretty much completely defeats the purpose of a spam filter) you most definitely have lost important mails thanks to gmail. I just don't see what people see in gmail part from the google brand - which surely isn't a good thing anymore.
- coffeecat 5y ago
  I'm not here to be a Google apologist, but in the 10 or more years that I've used gmail, I don't think I've ever had an important email go to spam.
  - b112 5y ago
    Incredible. Most people I know? It is almost a daily occurrence. Including if senders are in address books, and "not spam" is clicked when found in the spam folder. Most people I know see legit emails in the spam folder, all the time.
  - avsteele 5y ago
    Google workspace sends yes/no meeting confirmations that you make in workspace, to people within your own organization, to spam unless you specifically make a rule to allow them.
- lytefm 5y ago
  For me, this was the main reason to move away from MSFT/GMail to Mailbox.org where I could set the Spam filter to as low as they'd allow. So far I've been lucky to rarely receive actual spam, but I've often missed out on important emails too often.
kiwijamo 5y ago
I still have a @gmail.com account and every time I check it there's a whole lot of spam sitting in the inbox waiting to be classified as spam. Very strange as my main address (which I've had as my main address for almost 20 years) is on FastMail and hardly gets any spam despite the address being much more exposed e.g. it's found on many public mailing lists and it's been part of more data breaches than I can count. Yet it's Gmail that gets the torrent of spam including many obvious ones ending up in the inbox. YMMV of course but I don't rate Gmail highly compared to FastMail and even Office365.
- pyrale 5y ago
  At this point, I suspect the pattern firstname.lastname@gmail.com is so common that spammers just blindly target it. My experience is similar, I receive much less spam on my actual mail than I do on gmail.
  - kiwijamo 5y ago
    That is possible, my Gmail is indeed firstname.lastname@gmail.com.
pyrale 5y ago
> I would argue that outsourcing your email to Proton or Tutanota is not running your own "artisanal" email server. That's not a claim I'm making. The goal of my message was merely to help people see that there are several steps you can take from using a gmail account to relying on no third party. When I talk to people, they often don't realize this, and especially, how easy it is to set up #1. > No, having quality spam and fraud filtering, and quality security, that you host yourself, is by far the much harder problem. Handling spam is not an easy problem, but it's one where you have all the cards to take actions. On the other hand, having your mail properly delivered is something where people have wildly different outcomes, and for people with bad outcomes it's "impossibly hard, and there's no action you can take about it, unless you personally know the right people at the right places".

tjoff 5y ago

Well, on the flip side unless you constantly check your spam folder (which pretty much completely defeats the purpose of a spam filter) you most definitely have lost important mails thanks to gmail. I just don't see what people see in gmail part from the google brand - which surely isn't a good thing anymore.

coffeecat 5y ago
I'm not here to be a Google apologist, but in the 10 or more years that I've used gmail, I don't think I've ever had an important email go to spam.
- b112 5y ago
  Incredible. Most people I know? It is almost a daily occurrence. Including if senders are in address books, and "not spam" is clicked when found in the spam folder. Most people I know see legit emails in the spam folder, all the time.
- avsteele 5y ago
  Google workspace sends yes/no meeting confirmations that you make in workspace, to people within your own organization, to spam unless you specifically make a rule to allow them.
lytefm 5y ago
For me, this was the main reason to move away from MSFT/GMail to Mailbox.org where I could set the Spam filter to as low as they'd allow. So far I've been lucky to rarely receive actual spam, but I've often missed out on important emails too often.

kiwijamo 5y ago

I still have a @gmail.com account and every time I check it there's a whole lot of spam sitting in the inbox waiting to be classified as spam. Very strange as my main address (which I've had as my main address for almost 20 years) is on FastMail and hardly gets any spam despite the address being much more exposed e.g. it's found on many public mailing lists and it's been part of more data breaches than I can count. Yet it's Gmail that gets the torrent of spam including many obvious ones ending up in the inbox. YMMV of course but I don't rate Gmail highly compared to FastMail and even Office365.

pyrale 5y ago
At this point, I suspect the pattern firstname.lastname@gmail.com is so common that spammers just blindly target it. My experience is similar, I receive much less spam on my actual mail than I do on gmail.
- kiwijamo 5y ago
  That is possible, my Gmail is indeed firstname.lastname@gmail.com.

pyrale 5y ago

> I would argue that outsourcing your email to Proton or Tutanota is not running your own "artisanal" email server. That's not a claim I'm making. The goal of my message was merely to help people see that there are several steps you can take from using a gmail account to relying on no third party. When I talk to people, they often don't realize this, and especially, how easy it is to set up #1. > No, having quality spam and fraud filtering, and quality security, that you host yourself, is by far the much harder problem. Handling spam is not an easy problem, but it's one where you have all the cards to take actions. On the other hand, having your mail properly delivered is something where people have wildly different outcomes, and for people with bad outcomes it's "impossibly hard, and there's no action you can take about it, unless you personally know the right people at the right places".