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Only if you lack a foundation with deeply-held values. When you know who you are, and are confident in your values, then no amount of pressure from the outside

Only if you lack a foundation with deeply-held values. When you know who you are, and are confident in your values, then no amount of pressure from the outside world can make you bend a knee. That's not to say I'm there yet. I'm still a wishy-washy moral and ideological coward, but I'm slowly building my foundation through good role models (mainly old books from Russia). The Russian monks are one example of moral fortitude. Whether or not their morals are agreeable, they certainly are unwavering. Another would be Diogenes.

andreilys 5y ago
When you know who you are, and are confident in your values, then no amount of pressure from the outside world can make you bend a knee. You should read about the Asch experiments. Unfortunately the majority of people are very likely to succumb to social pressure and to conform.
- throwaway2331 5y ago
  I would wager that almost no statistically significant (what a terrible term) portion of college students know who they are (barring children that have not gone through the gamut of schooling, and have worked most of their lives). Perhaps replicating the experiment with adults in the 40+ age bracket would yield different results. I would also like to see this experiment replicated in different countries. The cultural aspect of moral strength cannot be stressed enough (itself a form of peer pressure). But at that point, should we differentiate between morality achieved through individual action vs. morality achieved through one's environment?
  - e40 5y ago
    Agreed! College students are at the most malleable period of their adult life.
Fatnino 5y ago
Funny you should bring up Russia. In Russia, the only way to get anything done with government bureaucrats was to "lubricate" the wheels with some illegal bribes in the right pockets. So a regular citizen could stick to his moral compass and spend eternity at the back of the line getting no government services whatsoever, or he could do what the majority of people did and pay the illegal "fees".
- throwaway2331 5y ago
  Yes. I'm not blind to the fact the Russian people were, at the end of the day, just people going about their lives; and these people were no different than you and I, just doing what they could to survive/thrive. However, there were a few notable "malcontents" that went against this grain, in spite of the zeitgeist of their time, and the workings of the people around them. Reading through old non-fiction accounts by Soviet dissidents (mostly lambasting their society), I cannot help but feel there are parallels between their struggle, and ours.
whatshisface 5y ago
Okay, but that accounts for one honest man out of every thousand who are mainly self-interested.
darkerside 5y ago
And then you make contact with the real world and realize that, yes, morals are important, but just as holding a Civil War era to our standards is unproductive, you are going to need to pick your battles. There are lines I'm not going to cross. To take a life, or directly hurt others in malicious pleasure, for example. But I'm not going to be so rigid as to imagine that my moral compass can navigate every gray area with certitude. I'll do my best and God can judge me in the end.
- throwaway2331 5y ago
  There is something admirable in being unproductive and unreasonable. I don't have the temperament for it; and just like you I can live my life to the best of my ability, winging it with the best of intentions. However, after seeing how there are others out there who "push the envelope," and go far and beyond this, I cannot stop myself from feeling emulous.
pixl97 5y ago
>When you know who you are, and are confident in your values, then no amount of pressure from the outside world can make you bend a knee Works great if you find this magic perfection. But in all likelihood you will not. You will be shaped by the biases of your upbringing and experiences that will put blinders on you. More so you will stick to your convictions with the justification of morality on your side, even when that is not the case.
- throwaway2331 5y ago
  Unfortunately, this is my base inclination. That everything is essentially predetermined by my genetics, and how my environment has affected their expression; and that my free will and choices are just an elaborate illusion played by my biology. But something in my biology is telling me to strive for something more.

andreilys 5y ago

When you know who you are, and are confident in your values, then no amount of pressure from the outside world can make you bend a knee. You should read about the Asch experiments. Unfortunately the majority of people are very likely to succumb to social pressure and to conform.

throwaway2331 5y ago
I would wager that almost no statistically significant (what a terrible term) portion of college students know who they are (barring children that have not gone through the gamut of schooling, and have worked most of their lives). Perhaps replicating the experiment with adults in the 40+ age bracket would yield different results. I would also like to see this experiment replicated in different countries. The cultural aspect of moral strength cannot be stressed enough (itself a form of peer pressure). But at that point, should we differentiate between morality achieved through individual action vs. morality achieved through one's environment?
- e40 5y ago
  Agreed! College students are at the most malleable period of their adult life.

Fatnino 5y ago

Funny you should bring up Russia. In Russia, the only way to get anything done with government bureaucrats was to "lubricate" the wheels with some illegal bribes in the right pockets. So a regular citizen could stick to his moral compass and spend eternity at the back of the line getting no government services whatsoever, or he could do what the majority of people did and pay the illegal "fees".

throwaway2331 5y ago
Yes. I'm not blind to the fact the Russian people were, at the end of the day, just people going about their lives; and these people were no different than you and I, just doing what they could to survive/thrive. However, there were a few notable "malcontents" that went against this grain, in spite of the zeitgeist of their time, and the workings of the people around them. Reading through old non-fiction accounts by Soviet dissidents (mostly lambasting their society), I cannot help but feel there are parallels between their struggle, and ours.

whatshisface 5y ago

Okay, but that accounts for one honest man out of every thousand who are mainly self-interested.

darkerside 5y ago

And then you make contact with the real world and realize that, yes, morals are important, but just as holding a Civil War era to our standards is unproductive, you are going to need to pick your battles. There are lines I'm not going to cross. To take a life, or directly hurt others in malicious pleasure, for example. But I'm not going to be so rigid as to imagine that my moral compass can navigate every gray area with certitude. I'll do my best and God can judge me in the end.

throwaway2331 5y ago
There is something admirable in being unproductive and unreasonable. I don't have the temperament for it; and just like you I can live my life to the best of my ability, winging it with the best of intentions. However, after seeing how there are others out there who "push the envelope," and go far and beyond this, I cannot stop myself from feeling emulous.

pixl97 5y ago

>When you know who you are, and are confident in your values, then no amount of pressure from the outside world can make you bend a knee Works great if you find this magic perfection. But in all likelihood you will not. You will be shaped by the biases of your upbringing and experiences that will put blinders on you. More so you will stick to your convictions with the justification of morality on your side, even when that is not the case.

throwaway2331 5y ago
Unfortunately, this is my base inclination. That everything is essentially predetermined by my genetics, and how my environment has affected their expression; and that my free will and choices are just an elaborate illusion played by my biology. But something in my biology is telling me to strive for something more.