3 ms·

I would agree that setting up a robust personal email system is difficult and may be exceedingly so for an organization of any significant size but I am not sur

by zzless 5y ago

I would agree that setting up a robust personal email system is difficult and may be exceedingly so for an organization of any significant size but I am not sure I would attribute that to the quality of services from large providers. Our organization (a university) outsourced its email to MS (outlook) and it is simply awful. No IMAP or POP, no forwarding (this is of course the policy of the university, not MS' fault per se), important emails getting lost as 'spam' (including some once in a lifetime conference invitations) just because they came from the outside. The search is a complete nightmare. No way to send mass emails to one's class with, say individually generated temporary passwords, which I can easily do from my own server. The interface is clunky to say the least. In comparison, even Thunderbird shines (although why TB cannot implement its quick search function for years now is beyond me). So it is not the quality that the big providers supply. Security, maybe (even though they are a large target by default) but not convenience.

jodrellblank 5y ago
> "simply awful. No IMAP or POP" Microsoft seem to disagree with you there: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/pop-imap-and-smtp-settings-8361e398-8af4-4e97-b147-6c6c4ac95353 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/pop-imap-and-smtp...
- realityking 5y ago
  I suspect OP’s organization disabled it. Not really Microsoft’s fault but that how a lot of Enterprise products get a bad name - user hostile configuration.
- zzless 5y ago
  As I mention in my post, this is the setting our admins chose so I do not blame MS for this (they support both, I know). Another setting they chose is to delete emails over six months of age and there is nothing I can do about it either. The search and the interface are entirely the fault of MS as are the lack of more subtle features such as mass emails (which I have to use often while teaching online).
  - jodrellblank 5y ago
    I read as "(No IMAP or POP) and (No forwarding which is University policy)". Mass emails via distribution lists are a thing - https://www.wisestamp.com/blog/managing-distribution-lists-in-outlook/ https://www.wisestamp.com/blog/managing-distribution-lists-i... As is sharing links to OneDrive content with a password on it: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/share-onedrive-files-and-folders-9fcc2f7d-de0c-4cec-93b0-a82024800c07 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/share-onedrive-fi... ("Set password: lets you set a password to access the file. When a user clicks the link, they will be prompted to enter a password before they can access the file. You'll need to provide this password separately to anyone you want to share the file with.") (Poor quality sluggish Outlook client, dropping important emails into Spam, not being as configurable as a custom mailserver, hit-or-miss search results, those are all things I can agree with, I'm not just defending it).
    - zzless 5y ago
      Thank you for the links but just to clarify: I have to send each student a random individual password (so that they can login to set up their test taking software). The password is currently generated by a script that then proceeds to email it to each student. Sometimes I have to send individualized assignments (also randomly generated by computer algebra software). My personal email server makes it straightforward but I do not see how it is possible with MS. I guess a cleverly written IMAP client can do that for me but I cannot use IMAP, alas. The university policy is basically 'disable everything that can make using outlook bearable' (this last sentence should compensate for the ambiguous grammar you pointed out :)
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  They are going to block standard authentication soon though, leaving only their 'modern' webbased authentication. So basically IMAP/POP as we (and our mail clients) know it will no longer work with O365. They've already delayed it a few times but they keep pushing for this.

by zzless 5y ago

jodrellblank 5y ago

> "simply awful. No IMAP or POP" Microsoft seem to disagree with you there: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/pop-imap-and-smtp-settings-8361e398-8af4-4e97-b147-6c6c4ac95353 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/pop-imap-and-smtp...

realityking 5y ago
I suspect OP’s organization disabled it. Not really Microsoft’s fault but that how a lot of Enterprise products get a bad name - user hostile configuration.
zzless 5y ago
As I mention in my post, this is the setting our admins chose so I do not blame MS for this (they support both, I know). Another setting they chose is to delete emails over six months of age and there is nothing I can do about it either. The search and the interface are entirely the fault of MS as are the lack of more subtle features such as mass emails (which I have to use often while teaching online).
- jodrellblank 5y ago
  I read as "(No IMAP or POP) and (No forwarding which is University policy)". Mass emails via distribution lists are a thing - https://www.wisestamp.com/blog/managing-distribution-lists-in-outlook/ https://www.wisestamp.com/blog/managing-distribution-lists-i... As is sharing links to OneDrive content with a password on it: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/share-onedrive-files-and-folders-9fcc2f7d-de0c-4cec-93b0-a82024800c07 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/share-onedrive-fi... ("Set password: lets you set a password to access the file. When a user clicks the link, they will be prompted to enter a password before they can access the file. You'll need to provide this password separately to anyone you want to share the file with.") (Poor quality sluggish Outlook client, dropping important emails into Spam, not being as configurable as a custom mailserver, hit-or-miss search results, those are all things I can agree with, I'm not just defending it).
  - zzless 5y ago
    Thank you for the links but just to clarify: I have to send each student a random individual password (so that they can login to set up their test taking software). The password is currently generated by a script that then proceeds to email it to each student. Sometimes I have to send individualized assignments (also randomly generated by computer algebra software). My personal email server makes it straightforward but I do not see how it is possible with MS. I guess a cleverly written IMAP client can do that for me but I cannot use IMAP, alas. The university policy is basically 'disable everything that can make using outlook bearable' (this last sentence should compensate for the ambiguous grammar you pointed out :)
GekkePrutser 5y ago
They are going to block standard authentication soon though, leaving only their 'modern' webbased authentication. So basically IMAP/POP as we (and our mail clients) know it will no longer work with O365. They've already delayed it a few times but they keep pushing for this.