5 ms·

> The psychological effect on most is that they start to feel like suckers for not pushing the envelope themselves and it’s dangerous because a country of jaded

> The psychological effect on most is that they start to feel like suckers for not pushing the envelope themselves and it’s dangerous because a country of jaded people is not one that can work together to solve common problems. Absolutely. Thank you for hitting the nail on the head! Problem is, the looting can only last so long, until everything has been looted. I suspect not much longer; if you put some of your wealth someplace undebase-able (say, gold or crypto), there is a chance you will make it to the other side. See also Atlas Shrugged, where the producers keeping the world afloat ("Atlas") decide to go on strike and hide due to populist politics bleeding them dry of their hard work ("shrugged").

kgin 5y ago
>undebase-able (say, gold or crypto)… Can’t debase something that has no base. Crypto has upper limit on supply (usually) but but no lower limit on demand. It can go to zero tomorrow based on feelings.
smackeyacky 5y ago
"Atlas Shrugged" is fiction.
- danuker 5y ago
  It's strongly inspired by the Soviet Union.
  - pjc50 5y ago
    So is Animal Farm.
- kybernetyk 5y ago
  But it becomes less so every year.
  - smackeyacky 5y ago
    So does "a clockwork orange". I guess it will be a race to see if the underclasses destroy society or the billionaires. My bet is both.
    - JKCalhoun 5y ago
      I thought history suggested, when it is a class struggle, the billionaires ultimately lose. Usually lose their heads, are lined up against walls.
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        Since the 1970s they are taking the whole prize.
- bambax 5y ago
  Yes, and it's also bad writing, and utterly stupid.
kukx 5y ago
In case of crypto you can easily go to 0 or near 0. However gold is historically stable in terms of a real value.
- danuker 5y ago
  I would diversify. Cryptocurrency is maturing, and that might mean we will see less volatility. https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/volatility-index/ https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/volatility-index/ And gold has also fallen 40% from $1825 in Aug 2011 to $1061 in Nov 2015. https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-...
74B5 5y ago
Neither gold nor crypto will bring you to what ever "the other side" is (so much wistles). Crypto currencies are bound to a functioning infrastructure and can be unpredictably volatile. Gold is no currency at all in the sense of a common trade value and this is the essence of it all. No, actually its labor. Labor is the only kind of value and any "worth" (eg money) has to be translatable to that. Crypto and gold is not.
- danuker 5y ago
  > "the other side" is (so much wistles) What I mean here concretely is failure/bankruptcy of the current system after people get fed up, and re-emergence/prioritization of institutions of justice and rule of law. This may be just a dream however. Don't hold your breath. > Gold is no currency at all in the sense of a common trade value I don't mind it not being a commonly transacted medium if I can buy and sell it without a lot of fees. For my purposes, even cheap good cars or real estate constitute a store of value, albeit less liquid ones. > Labor is the only kind of value and any "worth" Value is in the eye of the beholder. If I value my productivity less than you do yours, I might not accept payment in work.
  - 74B5 5y ago
    >Value is in the eye of the beholder. This is a common true-ish sentence but too vague and in fact inadequate in this topic. The problem lies in how value is measured and this is imo the root of nowadays turmoil. Ultimately valuable is, what satisfies essential needs (food, shelter, clothing, meds, etc), this is the bottom line. Gold is worthless on its own. Every society revolves around these needs and if not, that society may not last any longer. Only labor provides those values and thus sustains a society but not all members profit from it, "measured", the same way. Income from capital extracts out from labor value. The poor get poorer, while the rich get lazier. I assume your plan with crypto/gold is to dodge a financial crisis but why should a future society respect the profiteers of the exploitative former? Maybe invest in something that enables labor, eg. land.
    - cinquemb 5y ago
diordiderot 5y ago
Sadly every half wit middle manager & pencil pusher thinks that they're atlas, meanwhile there org survives on tacit knowledge of underlings who don't 'work to rule'
bambax 5y ago
> See also Atlas Shrugged, where the producers keeping the world afloat ("Atlas") For the record: in Antiquity, Atlas doesn't hold the world, but the sky. See https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2017/02/09/misunderstood-myths-part-five-atlas/ https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2017/02/09/misunderstood-m...
- dennis_jeeves 5y ago
avgcorrection 5y ago
> See also Atlas Shrugged, where the producers keeping the world afloat ("Atlas") decide to go on strike and hide due to populist politics bleeding them dry of their hard work ("shrugged"). And the former aristocrat from Tsarist Russia shrugged, went to America and made mediocre literature and a widely discredited philosophy.
- jmeister 5y ago
  Atlas Shrugged was the #2 favorite of entrepreneurs and business leaders, after the Bible, according to surveys by Fortune up until the ‘00s. She’s had a profound positive impact on America, sent countless young men and women into entrepreneurship and wealth creation. If we had Ayn Rands today, we’d have discontent youth building alternatives instead of throwing tantrums and destroying.
  - quickthrowman 5y ago
    Can you provide a link to the list with Atlas Shrugged at #2? I’m not asking because I don’t believe you, I do believe you. I just want to see the list so I can avoid reading any of the other books on it.
    - JKCalhoun 5y ago
      Oh, stitches, me. Thank you.
  - avgcorrection 5y ago
    > Atlas Shrugged was the #2 favorite of entrepreneurs and business leaders, after the Bible, according to surveys by Fortune up until the ‘00s. Could entrepeneurs and business leaders be susceptible to mediocre literature and terrible philosophies/ideologies? (Surely not…)
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - 5y ago
dennis_jeeves 5y ago

kgin 5y ago

>undebase-able (say, gold or crypto)… Can’t debase something that has no base. Crypto has upper limit on supply (usually) but but no lower limit on demand. It can go to zero tomorrow based on feelings.

smackeyacky 5y ago

"Atlas Shrugged" is fiction.

danuker 5y ago
It's strongly inspired by the Soviet Union.
- pjc50 5y ago
  So is Animal Farm.
kybernetyk 5y ago
But it becomes less so every year.
- smackeyacky 5y ago
  So does "a clockwork orange". I guess it will be a race to see if the underclasses destroy society or the billionaires. My bet is both.
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    I thought history suggested, when it is a class struggle, the billionaires ultimately lose. Usually lose their heads, are lined up against walls.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      Since the 1970s they are taking the whole prize.
bambax 5y ago
Yes, and it's also bad writing, and utterly stupid.

kukx 5y ago

In case of crypto you can easily go to 0 or near 0. However gold is historically stable in terms of a real value.

danuker 5y ago
I would diversify. Cryptocurrency is maturing, and that might mean we will see less volatility. https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/volatility-index/ https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/volatility-index/ And gold has also fallen 40% from $1825 in Aug 2011 to $1061 in Nov 2015. https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-...

74B5 5y ago

Neither gold nor crypto will bring you to what ever "the other side" is (so much wistles). Crypto currencies are bound to a functioning infrastructure and can be unpredictably volatile. Gold is no currency at all in the sense of a common trade value and this is the essence of it all. No, actually its labor. Labor is the only kind of value and any "worth" (eg money) has to be translatable to that. Crypto and gold is not.

danuker 5y ago
> "the other side" is (so much wistles) What I mean here concretely is failure/bankruptcy of the current system after people get fed up, and re-emergence/prioritization of institutions of justice and rule of law. This may be just a dream however. Don't hold your breath. > Gold is no currency at all in the sense of a common trade value I don't mind it not being a commonly transacted medium if I can buy and sell it without a lot of fees. For my purposes, even cheap good cars or real estate constitute a store of value, albeit less liquid ones. > Labor is the only kind of value and any "worth" Value is in the eye of the beholder. If I value my productivity less than you do yours, I might not accept payment in work.
- 74B5 5y ago
  >Value is in the eye of the beholder. This is a common true-ish sentence but too vague and in fact inadequate in this topic. The problem lies in how value is measured and this is imo the root of nowadays turmoil. Ultimately valuable is, what satisfies essential needs (food, shelter, clothing, meds, etc), this is the bottom line. Gold is worthless on its own. Every society revolves around these needs and if not, that society may not last any longer. Only labor provides those values and thus sustains a society but not all members profit from it, "measured", the same way. Income from capital extracts out from labor value. The poor get poorer, while the rich get lazier. I assume your plan with crypto/gold is to dodge a financial crisis but why should a future society respect the profiteers of the exploitative former? Maybe invest in something that enables labor, eg. land.
  - cinquemb 5y ago

diordiderot 5y ago

Sadly every half wit middle manager & pencil pusher thinks that they're atlas, meanwhile there org survives on tacit knowledge of underlings who don't 'work to rule'

bambax 5y ago

> See also Atlas Shrugged, where the producers keeping the world afloat ("Atlas") For the record: in Antiquity, Atlas doesn't hold the world, but the sky. See https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2017/02/09/misunderstood-myths-part-five-atlas/ https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2017/02/09/misunderstood-m...

dennis_jeeves 5y ago

avgcorrection 5y ago

> See also Atlas Shrugged, where the producers keeping the world afloat ("Atlas") decide to go on strike and hide due to populist politics bleeding them dry of their hard work ("shrugged"). And the former aristocrat from Tsarist Russia shrugged, went to America and made mediocre literature and a widely discredited philosophy.

jmeister 5y ago
Atlas Shrugged was the #2 favorite of entrepreneurs and business leaders, after the Bible, according to surveys by Fortune up until the ‘00s. She’s had a profound positive impact on America, sent countless young men and women into entrepreneurship and wealth creation. If we had Ayn Rands today, we’d have discontent youth building alternatives instead of throwing tantrums and destroying.
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  Can you provide a link to the list with Atlas Shrugged at #2? I’m not asking because I don’t believe you, I do believe you. I just want to see the list so I can avoid reading any of the other books on it.
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    Oh, stitches, me. Thank you.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  > Atlas Shrugged was the #2 favorite of entrepreneurs and business leaders, after the Bible, according to surveys by Fortune up until the ‘00s. Could entrepeneurs and business leaders be susceptible to mediocre literature and terrible philosophies/ideologies? (Surely not…)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- 5y ago

dennis_jeeves 5y ago