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I don’t follow how a new startup/system management architecture makes it “not UNIX”. We do put OS X in the UNIX column, after all. POSIX and all that.

by 3np 5y ago

fsflover 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface. AFAIK none of these describes systemd.
- 3np 5y ago
  I don’t see why something that is derived from UNIX has to have to the UNIX philosophy. Here’s a thought I haven’t evaluated fully: can the same thing be said about the Linux kernel? At the end of the day I think some of the major points of criticisms of systemd (moving fast and breaking things for example) are valid, however I still see it as a net gain. Fortunately there are distros like Devuan, OpenWRT and Alpine for those who want something different.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  That seems to describe systemd extremely well. Lots of little tools like networkd, homed, journald... that do one thing, do it well and work together. And using text+time stamps.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    AFAIK the systemd parts don't have well-defined interfaces. At least I've never seen any independent replacement of any of those small parts, as opposed to replacement of whole systemd.
- kaba0 5y ago
  Do you browse the web like `curl | render-http`? UNIX philosophy is not a law. For complex problem domains separating it into multiple parts is not always possible and only makes the whole thing more complex. System init is quite a complex problem domain.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    I browse the web using Firefox, i.e., extendable browser with a huge number of plugins. Unix philosophy is not a low. It's a rule helping to make computing understandable, robust and extendable.

I don’t follow how a new startup/system management architecture makes it “not UNIX”. We do put OS X in the UNIX column, after all. POSIX and all that.

by 3np 5y ago

I don’t follow how a new startup/system management architecture makes it “not UNIX”. We do put OS X in the UNIX column, after all. POSIX and all that.

fsflover 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface. AFAIK none of these describes systemd.

3np 5y ago
I don’t see why something that is derived from UNIX has to have to the UNIX philosophy. Here’s a thought I haven’t evaluated fully: can the same thing be said about the Linux kernel? At the end of the day I think some of the major points of criticisms of systemd (moving fast and breaking things for example) are valid, however I still see it as a net gain. Fortunately there are distros like Devuan, OpenWRT and Alpine for those who want something different.
diffeomorphism 5y ago
That seems to describe systemd extremely well. Lots of little tools like networkd, homed, journald... that do one thing, do it well and work together. And using text+time stamps.
- fsflover 5y ago
  AFAIK the systemd parts don't have well-defined interfaces. At least I've never seen any independent replacement of any of those small parts, as opposed to replacement of whole systemd.
kaba0 5y ago
Do you browse the web like `curl | render-http`? UNIX philosophy is not a law. For complex problem domains separating it into multiple parts is not always possible and only makes the whole thing more complex. System init is quite a complex problem domain.
- fsflover 5y ago
  I browse the web using Firefox, i.e., extendable browser with a huge number of plugins. Unix philosophy is not a low. It's a rule helping to make computing understandable, robust and extendable.