4 ms·

Huh? Have you ever used poetry before? Are you implying that it can't be used to install Python dependencies that have c/fortran like pandas? If that's what

by JPKab 5y ago

Huh? Have you ever used poetry before? Are you implying that it can't be used to install Python dependencies that have c/fortran like pandas? If that's what you're saying that is not correct.

fault1 5y ago
I think he was saying that conda/mamba are much more language agnostic than poetry. It handles a lot of packages that have /nothing/ to do with python, and it handles them a reasonable way. Poetry does seem much more tied to python (for better or worse). Keep in mind at least in mamba's case, not being tied to the python interpreter is very much a feature, not a bug: https://medium.com/@QuantStack/open-software-packaging-for-science-61cecee7fc23 https://medium.com/@QuantStack/open-software-packaging-for-s...
- mark_l_watson 5y ago
  I agree. I know people who avoid conda because of long install/update times, but I am more than willing to occasionally have to go outside for a walk while packages I rely on get properly managed and installed. BTW, sorry for being off topic, but Lex Fridman has two great recent long form interviews with Anaconda founders Peter Wang and Travis Oliphant. Good discussions!
  - misnome 5y ago
    We have found that mamba (fast alternate front end instead of conda) and micromamba entirely fixes this issue for us. IMO “conda install” is entirely unfit for purpose and probably puts lots of people off of the ecosystem (15 minutes for megabytes of error messages often in the case of unresolved dependency trees). Our CI was often spending more time running conda than running our test suite. I assume there is some political difference or acrimony which means the actual sources about core conda are entirely silent on the issue - I’ve privately replied to people expressing concern over this on the conda mailing list several times and people are always relieved to know there is a solution. Seriously, it’s the only way we can tolerate using conda as an ecosystem any more, and only ever feel this pain of 15-20 minute feedback cycles preparing packages with conda-build (for which boa is a promising new replacement we haven’t moved to yet)
prpl 5y ago
A python library with C/fortran is different than a C-only library. eigen is a great example of this. Many python packages depend on eigen, and there even exists a pyeigen, but assuredly almost none of them depend on pyeigen. In conda, you can declare this properly, and you can have one true eigen in your environment.
misnome 5y ago
> Are you implying that it can't be used to install Python dependencies that have c/fortran like pandas? No, they are implying that many scientific python packages and dependencies of python packages have dependencies on non-python libraries and packages written in c/c++/fortran. If you want to manage and reproducibly pin these they also need to be tracked, because otherwise you just end up with "whatever the underlying OS has installed", if you are lucky, or "compile failed" when installing the package if you aren't.

by JPKab 5y ago

Huh? Have you ever used poetry before? Are you implying that it can't be used to install Python dependencies that have c/fortran like pandas? If that's what you're saying that is not correct.

fault1 5y ago

I think he was saying that conda/mamba are much more language agnostic than poetry. It handles a lot of packages that have /nothing/ to do with python, and it handles them a reasonable way. Poetry does seem much more tied to python (for better or worse). Keep in mind at least in mamba's case, not being tied to the python interpreter is very much a feature, not a bug: https://medium.com/@QuantStack/open-software-packaging-for-science-61cecee7fc23 https://medium.com/@QuantStack/open-software-packaging-for-s...

mark_l_watson 5y ago
I agree. I know people who avoid conda because of long install/update times, but I am more than willing to occasionally have to go outside for a walk while packages I rely on get properly managed and installed. BTW, sorry for being off topic, but Lex Fridman has two great recent long form interviews with Anaconda founders Peter Wang and Travis Oliphant. Good discussions!
- misnome 5y ago
  We have found that mamba (fast alternate front end instead of conda) and micromamba entirely fixes this issue for us. IMO “conda install” is entirely unfit for purpose and probably puts lots of people off of the ecosystem (15 minutes for megabytes of error messages often in the case of unresolved dependency trees). Our CI was often spending more time running conda than running our test suite. I assume there is some political difference or acrimony which means the actual sources about core conda are entirely silent on the issue - I’ve privately replied to people expressing concern over this on the conda mailing list several times and people are always relieved to know there is a solution. Seriously, it’s the only way we can tolerate using conda as an ecosystem any more, and only ever feel this pain of 15-20 minute feedback cycles preparing packages with conda-build (for which boa is a promising new replacement we haven’t moved to yet)

prpl 5y ago

A python library with C/fortran is different than a C-only library. eigen is a great example of this. Many python packages depend on eigen, and there even exists a pyeigen, but assuredly almost none of them depend on pyeigen. In conda, you can declare this properly, and you can have one true eigen in your environment.

misnome 5y ago

> Are you implying that it can't be used to install Python dependencies that have c/fortran like pandas? No, they are implying that many scientific python packages and dependencies of python packages have dependencies on non-python libraries and packages written in c/c++/fortran. If you want to manage and reproducibly pin these they also need to be tracked, because otherwise you just end up with "whatever the underlying OS has installed", if you are lucky, or "compile failed" when installing the package if you aren't.