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Likely even a little bit more narrow than Python-only since it seems to be Poetry-only. Most Python projects probably work okay with Poetry, but it's still a re

by mwt 5y ago

Likely even a little bit more narrow than Python-only since it seems to be Poetry-only. Most Python projects probably work okay with Poetry, but it's still a relatively new tool compared to the other options.

travisd 5y ago
I don’t think this is much of a concern here. Poetry is still not super compatible with a bunch of tooling, but that only matters when consuming Poetry projects. When you just install a dependency into a poetry project, it gets installed into a venv - nothing particularly exotic about it.
- JPKab 5y ago
  Correct. They are commenting on Poetry without knowing anything about it, other than it being new and unfamiliar. Always amazed at the arrogance behind that behavior.
- physicsguy 5y ago
  It matters a lot, because C, C++ and Fortran dependencies make up a large number of Python package dependencies. It’s not really a Poetry problem though, but a PyPi problem. Wheels improved the situation but aren’t a panacea.
JPKab 5y ago
"Likely": Translation: I've never used poetry, don't know anything about it, and I'm going to talk out of my rear end and assume that it doesn't use conventional, existing venv/pip under the hood. There isn't a single python project out there that can't be worked on with poetry. It creates a venv. Poetry is doing a lot of things to manage automatically activating and deactivating it, etc, but it's just a venv.
- Mehdi2277 5y ago
  False. Poetry implements it’s own dependency resolver. It does not use pip’s resolver. For most packages this is fine. For a couple packages it’s resolver does not work. Pytorch is one major ml library that is incompatible with poetry as poetry has a non-standard interpretation of local package version tags. https://github.com/python-poetry/poetry/issues/4231 https://github.com/python-poetry/poetry/issues/4231 Is one issue. If you even transitively depend on pytorch poetry will break and you will need hacks to make it work or just give up.
  - fault1 5y ago
    yes, alas major exceptions like pytorch make this old xkcd still ring true today: https://xkcd.com/1987/ https://xkcd.com/1987/ also, a lot of python packages don't seem to follow the idea of semvar very well. Especially when you compare it to other communities like Go.
    - MaxBarraclough 5y ago
      The xkcd hover-over text sounds almost like it's describing containers: > The Python environmental protection agency wants to seal it in a cement chamber [...]
- misnome 5y ago
  ISTR poetry really didn't like the black "eternal beta" versioning scheme for a while and installing it didn't work properly. Also, it really doesn't work super well if you need to work on multiple development projects simultaneously, and when "just change the way you structure your entire project" is poetry's answer to this, the solution is "okay we won't use poetry".

by mwt 5y ago

travisd 5y ago

I don’t think this is much of a concern here. Poetry is still not super compatible with a bunch of tooling, but that only matters when consuming Poetry projects. When you just install a dependency into a poetry project, it gets installed into a venv - nothing particularly exotic about it.

JPKab 5y ago
Correct. They are commenting on Poetry without knowing anything about it, other than it being new and unfamiliar. Always amazed at the arrogance behind that behavior.
physicsguy 5y ago
It matters a lot, because C, C++ and Fortran dependencies make up a large number of Python package dependencies. It’s not really a Poetry problem though, but a PyPi problem. Wheels improved the situation but aren’t a panacea.

JPKab 5y ago

"Likely": Translation: I've never used poetry, don't know anything about it, and I'm going to talk out of my rear end and assume that it doesn't use conventional, existing venv/pip under the hood. There isn't a single python project out there that can't be worked on with poetry. It creates a venv. Poetry is doing a lot of things to manage automatically activating and deactivating it, etc, but it's just a venv.

Mehdi2277 5y ago
False. Poetry implements it’s own dependency resolver. It does not use pip’s resolver. For most packages this is fine. For a couple packages it’s resolver does not work. Pytorch is one major ml library that is incompatible with poetry as poetry has a non-standard interpretation of local package version tags. https://github.com/python-poetry/poetry/issues/4231 https://github.com/python-poetry/poetry/issues/4231 Is one issue. If you even transitively depend on pytorch poetry will break and you will need hacks to make it work or just give up.
- fault1 5y ago
  yes, alas major exceptions like pytorch make this old xkcd still ring true today: https://xkcd.com/1987/ https://xkcd.com/1987/ also, a lot of python packages don't seem to follow the idea of semvar very well. Especially when you compare it to other communities like Go.
  - MaxBarraclough 5y ago
    The xkcd hover-over text sounds almost like it's describing containers: > The Python environmental protection agency wants to seal it in a cement chamber [...]
misnome 5y ago
ISTR poetry really didn't like the black "eternal beta" versioning scheme for a while and installing it didn't work properly. Also, it really doesn't work super well if you need to work on multiple development projects simultaneously, and when "just change the way you structure your entire project" is poetry's answer to this, the solution is "okay we won't use poetry".