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This feels like peak artificial scarcity...or some sort of dystopian capitalism run amok. Speaking as someone who's intimately familiar with automotive mainten

This feels like peak artificial scarcity...or some sort of dystopian capitalism run amok. Speaking as someone who's intimately familiar with automotive maintenance (its my job) your best bet if you're in the market for a car is always used. You'll miss out on the latest fad gadgets but most cars in the last decade are reliable to at least 250k miles and don't pull these kind of cash grab gimmicks. The nicest thing you can get is off brand luxury. Hyundai equus or any Acura is going to meet and exceed your expectations for comfort and performance well after 100k miles, .and your insurance is lower because they aren't a painted target for theft. Crooks want Mercedes rims, they generally don't care about what's rolling along on a Chrysler 300

viraptor 5y ago
Also, if you do want the convenience of a new car - there are good ex-demo cars available. Usually high-spec, with a good discount, after being driven a very short distance to show off the model by the dealer. They come with the warranty.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Yeah but as practical as a Sonata may be it doesn't scream "I have money but I'm modest, I swear" with nearly the volume of a Solara[1] [1] Yes I know they don't make it anymore, I was going for the alliteration.
franl 5y ago
What’s your take on all the new vehicles these days with their auto engine start/stop and cylinder deactivation tech? I can’t imagine these will make for dependable used vehicles. I believe Honda settled a class action suit related to their Variable Cylinder Management tech (https://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/honda-settles-class-action-lawsuit-engines/ https://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/honda-settles-class-acti...). Even current owners are still complaining of issues. It was enough to put me off from buying a V6 Honda.
- hedgehog 5y ago
  Wait until the power train has been out for a while and look at reviews of vehicles that use it. Most cars have some problems but at least you'll know what you're signing up for. Some of the newer hybrid tech etc sounds complicated but mechanically isn't really that much more so than a regular automatic transmission. I look at all the Priuses running around doing taxi and delivery duty in my area for the last 15+ years, I figure if there were any major problems we would know.
- nimbius 5y ago
  cylinder deactivation has been a settled technology for about a decade now. northstar engines did it...to varying degrees of belt-eating self destruction...its likely a great option for long-haul drivers that spent a good deal of time at one speed. as for auto start-stop, it smacks of desperation. every one of these systems more than doubles the load on the starter motor without giving any concrete numbers for expected fuel or carbon savings. its also worth remembering starting a car includes a fueling requirement itself.
  - iggldiggl 5y ago
    One edition of the owner's manual for the Mitsubishi Mirage (Space Star in certain parts of the world) has CO² emissions figures as measured under both the old NEDC and the new WLTC standards. For the smaller 1000 ccm engine model in combination with manual transmission, start-stop saves a measly 1 g/km as measured per NEDC, and actually uses 1 g/km more if measured according to the WLTC.
cameronh90 5y ago
Just as a counterpoint, I'm currently in the market for an electric car (fuel is >$8/gal here). Due to the way taxes work here, you can get effectively more than 40% off a company car EV lease through salary sacrifice. All in, I could get a 4 year lease for more than 60% less than a 4 year car loan - with the caveat that I won't have the option of paying a balloon payment to take ownership at the end, but it still works out far better financially to do the lease. The lease also includes insurance, servicing and various other things. I also have heard pretty sketchy things about second hand EVs so would rather wait for that market to develop more. The problem with leases is I can't pick my trim. If every car was manufactured with the same trim but used software unlock for features, I could just lease the standard model then pay for extra performance, better autopilot, keyless unlock, etc. month to month. It would also be great for hired cars where I could get in the car and pay £5 to unlock the upgraded model for 2 weeks. Basically, what I'm saying is being able to subscribe to a car and add-on features at runtime is actually an improvement for me. I get it's absolutely not for everyone, but I personally would like it.
- sebastien_b 5y ago
  If you’re leasing all the time, isn’t that basically a subscription, where you get a newer model every few years (like Apple does with their phone plans)?
88913527 5y ago
It increases the opportunity cost of not fixing an old vehicle. Most people might balk at an engine rebuild, for example, but if it's that versus a new vehicle that has an added ongoing subscription fee -- it makes car repair seem relatively cheaper.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  So, my trick is: buy an older but high quality car for peanuts, then pre-emptively redo everything that has worn, including an engine rebuild if that's what it takes. The end result is a car that is priced roughly 30 to 35% of the equivalent new vehicle cheap to insure, and with the added benefit of plentiful aftermarket parts and a lack of electronics that get in the way of driving the thing. I've done this twice now and I'm not going back to driving young or new.

viraptor 5y ago

Also, if you do want the convenience of a new car - there are good ex-demo cars available. Usually high-spec, with a good discount, after being driven a very short distance to show off the model by the dealer. They come with the warranty.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

Yeah but as practical as a Sonata may be it doesn't scream "I have money but I'm modest, I swear" with nearly the volume of a Solara[1] [1] Yes I know they don't make it anymore, I was going for the alliteration.

franl 5y ago

What’s your take on all the new vehicles these days with their auto engine start/stop and cylinder deactivation tech? I can’t imagine these will make for dependable used vehicles. I believe Honda settled a class action suit related to their Variable Cylinder Management tech (https://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/honda-settles-class-action-lawsuit-engines/ https://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/honda-settles-class-acti...). Even current owners are still complaining of issues. It was enough to put me off from buying a V6 Honda.

hedgehog 5y ago
Wait until the power train has been out for a while and look at reviews of vehicles that use it. Most cars have some problems but at least you'll know what you're signing up for. Some of the newer hybrid tech etc sounds complicated but mechanically isn't really that much more so than a regular automatic transmission. I look at all the Priuses running around doing taxi and delivery duty in my area for the last 15+ years, I figure if there were any major problems we would know.
nimbius 5y ago
cylinder deactivation has been a settled technology for about a decade now. northstar engines did it...to varying degrees of belt-eating self destruction...its likely a great option for long-haul drivers that spent a good deal of time at one speed. as for auto start-stop, it smacks of desperation. every one of these systems more than doubles the load on the starter motor without giving any concrete numbers for expected fuel or carbon savings. its also worth remembering starting a car includes a fueling requirement itself.
- iggldiggl 5y ago
  One edition of the owner's manual for the Mitsubishi Mirage (Space Star in certain parts of the world) has CO² emissions figures as measured under both the old NEDC and the new WLTC standards. For the smaller 1000 ccm engine model in combination with manual transmission, start-stop saves a measly 1 g/km as measured per NEDC, and actually uses 1 g/km more if measured according to the WLTC.

cameronh90 5y ago

Just as a counterpoint, I'm currently in the market for an electric car (fuel is >$8/gal here). Due to the way taxes work here, you can get effectively more than 40% off a company car EV lease through salary sacrifice. All in, I could get a 4 year lease for more than 60% less than a 4 year car loan - with the caveat that I won't have the option of paying a balloon payment to take ownership at the end, but it still works out far better financially to do the lease. The lease also includes insurance, servicing and various other things. I also have heard pretty sketchy things about second hand EVs so would rather wait for that market to develop more. The problem with leases is I can't pick my trim. If every car was manufactured with the same trim but used software unlock for features, I could just lease the standard model then pay for extra performance, better autopilot, keyless unlock, etc. month to month. It would also be great for hired cars where I could get in the car and pay £5 to unlock the upgraded model for 2 weeks. Basically, what I'm saying is being able to subscribe to a car and add-on features at runtime is actually an improvement for me. I get it's absolutely not for everyone, but I personally would like it.

sebastien_b 5y ago
If you’re leasing all the time, isn’t that basically a subscription, where you get a newer model every few years (like Apple does with their phone plans)?

88913527 5y ago

It increases the opportunity cost of not fixing an old vehicle. Most people might balk at an engine rebuild, for example, but if it's that versus a new vehicle that has an added ongoing subscription fee -- it makes car repair seem relatively cheaper.

jacquesm 5y ago
So, my trick is: buy an older but high quality car for peanuts, then pre-emptively redo everything that has worn, including an engine rebuild if that's what it takes. The end result is a car that is priced roughly 30 to 35% of the equivalent new vehicle cheap to insure, and with the added benefit of plentiful aftermarket parts and a lack of electronics that get in the way of driving the thing. I've done this twice now and I'm not going back to driving young or new.