4 ms·

This seems like an awfully abstract theory. I think it's simpler to say that "Merry Christmas" vs "Happy Holidays" has become this point of contention because

This seems like an awfully abstract theory. I think it's simpler to say that "Merry Christmas" vs "Happy Holidays" has become this point of contention because Merry Christmas only applies to Christians, whereas Happy Holidays does not. The divisive, bi-partisan nature of American politics has just turned this small distinction into a fight.

john_moscow 5y ago
Oh, I think there's more than that. It's somehow not divisive for Jews to congratulate wide audiences with Hanukah. It's not divisive for Muslims to congratulate their audiences with Ramadan. It's not divisive for Chinese to wish others with happy Chinese New Year. But it's somehow "problematic" to say "Merry Christmas". In all honesty, I can't imagine being offended if someone congratulated me with a holiday they celebrate and I don't. I would congratulate them back and maybe ask how they celebrate it to learn something new. On the other hand, if the Christmas experience was something the previous generation used to have, and I got priced out of it, "Merry Christmas" would sound like someone is rubbing it in...
- driverdan 5y ago
  This is right wing propaganda nonsense. Very few people are offended by someone wishing them a Merry Christmas. There is no war on Christmas.
  - hunter2_ 5y ago
    Very few are actually offended, but tons of people know that there's a widespread discussion about not offending, and avoid poking the hornet's nest for that reason. Not quite analogous to, but eerily reminiscent of, the Latino/Latinx idea.
    - foldr 5y ago
      The alleged “War on Christmas” (and the idea associated idea that it is somehow no longer possible to say “merry Christmas”) are by no means a new phenomenon. They have long been favorite talking points of Ron Paul and the AFA, for example. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2003/12/ron-paul/the-war-on-religion/ https://www.lewrockwell.com/2003/12/ron-paul/the-war-on-reli... If the President of the USA can say “merry Christmas” without anyone complaining, then I’d have to say that the scale of the issue is (and always has been) enormously exaggerated in the rough and tumble of American culture wars. https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/status/1342490030787407872?lang=en https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/status/13424900307874078...
  - collegeburner 5y ago
    No its not. I am at college and I have been this 2 times this year. 1 time I said "Merry Christmas" to a group and a girl found me later 1 on 1 and said that I should "think about being more inclusive" because different people celebrate different holidays in this season. Second time I said it to a different group when I arrived and a girl straight up interjected "And happy holidays!" Right after i said it, she wasn't arriving with me or anything. As we all know: just because you havent personally experienced something doesnt mean it doesnt happen :) Btw my college isnt even super leftie wing so I was surprised.
    - lupire 5y ago
      Is something wrong about thinking about being more inclusive?
  - native_samples 5y ago
    No? Then why did a Merry Christmas by a right wing politician message get automatically flagged specifically for being "discriminatory"? Obviously someone somewhere thinks it's at best a gray area. I think john_moscow's theory has a lot of merit, although I think it's more related to general D&I ideology than people being priced out of Christmas specifically. They're just desperate for ways to show how much they care about foreigners vs local people, and this is one more way.
mr_toad 5y ago
> Merry Christmas only applies to Christians Really it doesn’t. I’d bet that the majority, worldwide, of people celebrating Christmas this year are not practicing Christians. Most won’t go to church, even on Christmas Day.
- foldr 5y ago
  Sure, but most of them are probably "culturally Christain" in a broad sense. For example, most of them would be able to explain in broad terms the religious significance of the festival and feel comfortable following a number of religiously tinged Christmas traditions. It's worth bearing in mind that most religious festivals are not celebrated only by devout followers of the relevant religion.

john_moscow 5y ago

Oh, I think there's more than that. It's somehow not divisive for Jews to congratulate wide audiences with Hanukah. It's not divisive for Muslims to congratulate their audiences with Ramadan. It's not divisive for Chinese to wish others with happy Chinese New Year. But it's somehow "problematic" to say "Merry Christmas". In all honesty, I can't imagine being offended if someone congratulated me with a holiday they celebrate and I don't. I would congratulate them back and maybe ask how they celebrate it to learn something new. On the other hand, if the Christmas experience was something the previous generation used to have, and I got priced out of it, "Merry Christmas" would sound like someone is rubbing it in...

driverdan 5y ago
This is right wing propaganda nonsense. Very few people are offended by someone wishing them a Merry Christmas. There is no war on Christmas.
- hunter2_ 5y ago
  Very few are actually offended, but tons of people know that there's a widespread discussion about not offending, and avoid poking the hornet's nest for that reason. Not quite analogous to, but eerily reminiscent of, the Latino/Latinx idea.
  - foldr 5y ago
    The alleged “War on Christmas” (and the idea associated idea that it is somehow no longer possible to say “merry Christmas”) are by no means a new phenomenon. They have long been favorite talking points of Ron Paul and the AFA, for example. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2003/12/ron-paul/the-war-on-religion/ https://www.lewrockwell.com/2003/12/ron-paul/the-war-on-reli... If the President of the USA can say “merry Christmas” without anyone complaining, then I’d have to say that the scale of the issue is (and always has been) enormously exaggerated in the rough and tumble of American culture wars. https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/status/1342490030787407872?lang=en https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/status/13424900307874078...
- collegeburner 5y ago
  No its not. I am at college and I have been this 2 times this year. 1 time I said "Merry Christmas" to a group and a girl found me later 1 on 1 and said that I should "think about being more inclusive" because different people celebrate different holidays in this season. Second time I said it to a different group when I arrived and a girl straight up interjected "And happy holidays!" Right after i said it, she wasn't arriving with me or anything. As we all know: just because you havent personally experienced something doesnt mean it doesnt happen :) Btw my college isnt even super leftie wing so I was surprised.
  - lupire 5y ago
    Is something wrong about thinking about being more inclusive?
- native_samples 5y ago
  No? Then why did a Merry Christmas by a right wing politician message get automatically flagged specifically for being "discriminatory"? Obviously someone somewhere thinks it's at best a gray area. I think john_moscow's theory has a lot of merit, although I think it's more related to general D&I ideology than people being priced out of Christmas specifically. They're just desperate for ways to show how much they care about foreigners vs local people, and this is one more way.

mr_toad 5y ago

> Merry Christmas only applies to Christians Really it doesn’t. I’d bet that the majority, worldwide, of people celebrating Christmas this year are not practicing Christians. Most won’t go to church, even on Christmas Day.

foldr 5y ago
Sure, but most of them are probably "culturally Christain" in a broad sense. For example, most of them would be able to explain in broad terms the religious significance of the festival and feel comfortable following a number of religiously tinged Christmas traditions. It's worth bearing in mind that most religious festivals are not celebrated only by devout followers of the relevant religion.