4 ms·

What exactly is the problem with this site? Political flamewar is offtopic, and your comment reads as “this is a conservative news outlet, so watch out.” I was

What exactly is the problem with this site? Political flamewar is offtopic, and your comment reads as “this is a conservative news outlet, so watch out.” I was curious and clicked around. The site recommends using DDG as a search engine. There was a time that this wasn’t a fringe idea. Either the story is true and fairly represented, or it’s false or misleading. If it’s the latter, it’s best to point it out.

walrus01 5y ago
> What exactly is the problem with this site? it appears to have a large number of articles on it about how terrible "vaccine passports" are and how they're an outragious infringement on civil rights, so it's verging into outright coronavirus conspiracy stuff that contradicts factual science and reality. as "alternative" social networks, linked from an index page off its home page, it also recommends well known far-right/alt-right/fascist hangouts gab, parler and mewe.
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  So in your opinion, merely opposing vaccine passports is “conspiracy theory stuff that contradicts factual science and reality”?
  - walrus01 5y ago
    yes, because the spread of coronavirus by unvaccinated persons in groups in indoor spaces is a scientific fact. additionally, the hospitalization rate and death rate for unvaccinated persons vs vaccinated persons. and further, the severity of case and death outcome rate per capita of infections for breakthrough-of-vaccinated persons with covid19 in hospital, vs same per capita of unvaccinated persons in hospital.
    - sgjohnson 5y ago
      None of which has got anything at all to do with vaccine passports.
      - walrus01 5y ago
        the logical conclusion would be that effective existence, enforcement and peoples' cooperation with vaccine passports will prevent unvaccinated persons from gathering in groups indoors and further spreading covid19, so the relevance is quite clear.
        veeti 5y ago
        The actual conclusion from European countries such as the Netherlands, Finland, etc. is that vaccine passports are not sufficient to cull the spread or reduce load on the healthcare system. Back to lockdowns it is.
        smsm42 5y ago
        Putting everybody in solitary confinement would also prevent persons from gathering in groups and further spreading covid19. Obviously, nobody (so far) is advocating this. So you can appreciate the difference between measuring a policy only on single metric of efficiency, and comprehensively weighting overall costs and benefits. Not every efficient policy is legal, moral or acceptable.
    - qaq 5y ago
      Why ? Something can be good for certain outcome e.g. reduce infection rate, hospitalization rate and yet infringe on civil rights. Those are orthogonal concerns.
      - userbinator 5y ago
        This, absolutely. There are many who are fully vaxxed and happy to promote the vaccines, but oppose the passports and mandates. It's not about the short-term gains but the long-term effects of authoritarianism.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      The spread of coronavirus by vaccinated persons in groups in indoor spaces is a scientific fact too. So what? The debate is not about that, it's about whether prescribing certain medical procedure by state coercion, and limiting the civil rights of persons who choose not to undergo this procedure is a proper policy and whether the laws of the land allow the government to do that. It's a legitimate debate which has nothing to do with "conspiracies" - you don't need any conspiracies to find reasonable argument on both sides of the debate. If you don't like the side that that particular site is on and disagree with their arguments - fine, but that doesn't mean they are lying about other factual things (they are not). There's a huge distance between disagreeing and refusing to even listen to other side's arguments, and even worse - refusing to listen to anything from somebody that once had an opinion you disagree with - this is no way for a society to function.
- choward 5y ago
  I find it ironic that you're trying to censor the site that's calling out censorship merely because they have a few things you disagree with.
  - walrus01 5y ago
- tempnow987 5y ago
  My local scientists said masks did nothing (then licked their lips to turn a page). I kept on wearing my N95 mask. Then I was told that the vent made the N95 ineffective. Obviously wrong, I was certainly protected, and as a source control compared to folks wearing thin mesh or surgical masks (usually with nose out) no doubt far more reliable. Scientists wrong again. Then I was told we couldn't go to to three mile beach with my children (deserted at 9AM when we went even during non-covid times). This had an ocean breeze onshore, huge quantities of fresh air (and sun). Supposedly it was safer to crowd into a grocery store with others. Count me skeptical again. Then we are told that only the CDC can test for COVID. Count me skeptical. Then we are told that antibody tests need to have full computer connected to an iphone and pay for a medical consult to use at home. Seriously? This great threat, and you can't do a test like a pregnancy strip at home? Thankfully they are backing off this now - scientists wrong again. We are told that inflation is transitory, it's just misinformation that it might stick around a bit. After the administration goes out of its way to block fossil fuel production in the US, they announce an investigation of oil companies for failing to keep prices low. Again, these are the "experts" in markets at the FTC. If these scientists demanding vaccine passports spent even a FRACTION of the trillions put into this COVID (now Omicron) stuff between lockdowns and interventions into something as simple as healthy diet, exercise and socialization - what would be the outcomes? I'm vaxed and boosted, but the blind obedience to these "scientists" and "experts" is totally ridiculous, especially the non-hard science epidemiologists - is absolutely silly. I would not count this as their shining moment. Half the time the politicians ordering us off the beaches are squeezed in rooms with their staff and lobbyists hatching another political effort of one sort or another. The words "misinformation" have become a near joke.
  - Stratoscope 5y ago
    > I was told that the vent made the N95 ineffective. Obviously wrong, I was certainly protected... You were protected, but the people around you weren't. The vent is a one-way valve. It blocks air from coming in, so it has to filter through the mask material. It allows air to go out freely with no filtering. So a vented N95 mask protects the wearer from external particles, but it does not protect others from particles exhaled by the wearer. Vented N95 masks are meant for places like construction sites that may have dust and toxic particles in the air. They protect you when you breathe in, but let you breathe out freely. They are not suited for preventing the spread of disease.
e0a74c 5y ago
> The site recommends using DDG as a search engine. There was a time that this wasn’t a fringe idea. Is that considered fringe now? Has it been appropriated by some radicalized group in the US?
- jaywalk 5y ago
  Distrusting massive corporations is a far-right opinion now, apparently.
  - Ostrogodsky 5y ago
    The brainwash the powerful social media companies have done to the masses in the last 10 years it is a thing of beauty. Criminal and immoral beauty. Now supporting Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, behemoths which represent the excess of capitalism is considered hip, cool and progressive.
    - e0a74c 5y ago
      > Now supporting Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, behemoths which represent the excess of capitalism is considered hip, cool and progressive. Isn't that great though? If it's now hip and cool, even the dumb/vain people will do the right thing (albeit for the wrong reasons) which should ultimately strengthen the alternatives to Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.

walrus01 5y ago

> What exactly is the problem with this site? it appears to have a large number of articles on it about how terrible "vaccine passports" are and how they're an outragious infringement on civil rights, so it's verging into outright coronavirus conspiracy stuff that contradicts factual science and reality. as "alternative" social networks, linked from an index page off its home page, it also recommends well known far-right/alt-right/fascist hangouts gab, parler and mewe.

sgjohnson 5y ago
So in your opinion, merely opposing vaccine passports is “conspiracy theory stuff that contradicts factual science and reality”?
- walrus01 5y ago
  yes, because the spread of coronavirus by unvaccinated persons in groups in indoor spaces is a scientific fact. additionally, the hospitalization rate and death rate for unvaccinated persons vs vaccinated persons. and further, the severity of case and death outcome rate per capita of infections for breakthrough-of-vaccinated persons with covid19 in hospital, vs same per capita of unvaccinated persons in hospital.
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    None of which has got anything at all to do with vaccine passports.
    - walrus01 5y ago
      the logical conclusion would be that effective existence, enforcement and peoples' cooperation with vaccine passports will prevent unvaccinated persons from gathering in groups indoors and further spreading covid19, so the relevance is quite clear.
      - veeti 5y ago
        The actual conclusion from European countries such as the Netherlands, Finland, etc. is that vaccine passports are not sufficient to cull the spread or reduce load on the healthcare system. Back to lockdowns it is.
      - smsm42 5y ago
        Putting everybody in solitary confinement would also prevent persons from gathering in groups and further spreading covid19. Obviously, nobody (so far) is advocating this. So you can appreciate the difference between measuring a policy only on single metric of efficiency, and comprehensively weighting overall costs and benefits. Not every efficient policy is legal, moral or acceptable.
  - qaq 5y ago
    Why ? Something can be good for certain outcome e.g. reduce infection rate, hospitalization rate and yet infringe on civil rights. Those are orthogonal concerns.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      This, absolutely. There are many who are fully vaxxed and happy to promote the vaccines, but oppose the passports and mandates. It's not about the short-term gains but the long-term effects of authoritarianism.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    The spread of coronavirus by vaccinated persons in groups in indoor spaces is a scientific fact too. So what? The debate is not about that, it's about whether prescribing certain medical procedure by state coercion, and limiting the civil rights of persons who choose not to undergo this procedure is a proper policy and whether the laws of the land allow the government to do that. It's a legitimate debate which has nothing to do with "conspiracies" - you don't need any conspiracies to find reasonable argument on both sides of the debate. If you don't like the side that that particular site is on and disagree with their arguments - fine, but that doesn't mean they are lying about other factual things (they are not). There's a huge distance between disagreeing and refusing to even listen to other side's arguments, and even worse - refusing to listen to anything from somebody that once had an opinion you disagree with - this is no way for a society to function.
choward 5y ago
I find it ironic that you're trying to censor the site that's calling out censorship merely because they have a few things you disagree with.
- walrus01 5y ago
tempnow987 5y ago
My local scientists said masks did nothing (then licked their lips to turn a page). I kept on wearing my N95 mask. Then I was told that the vent made the N95 ineffective. Obviously wrong, I was certainly protected, and as a source control compared to folks wearing thin mesh or surgical masks (usually with nose out) no doubt far more reliable. Scientists wrong again. Then I was told we couldn't go to to three mile beach with my children (deserted at 9AM when we went even during non-covid times). This had an ocean breeze onshore, huge quantities of fresh air (and sun). Supposedly it was safer to crowd into a grocery store with others. Count me skeptical again. Then we are told that only the CDC can test for COVID. Count me skeptical. Then we are told that antibody tests need to have full computer connected to an iphone and pay for a medical consult to use at home. Seriously? This great threat, and you can't do a test like a pregnancy strip at home? Thankfully they are backing off this now - scientists wrong again. We are told that inflation is transitory, it's just misinformation that it might stick around a bit. After the administration goes out of its way to block fossil fuel production in the US, they announce an investigation of oil companies for failing to keep prices low. Again, these are the "experts" in markets at the FTC. If these scientists demanding vaccine passports spent even a FRACTION of the trillions put into this COVID (now Omicron) stuff between lockdowns and interventions into something as simple as healthy diet, exercise and socialization - what would be the outcomes? I'm vaxed and boosted, but the blind obedience to these "scientists" and "experts" is totally ridiculous, especially the non-hard science epidemiologists - is absolutely silly. I would not count this as their shining moment. Half the time the politicians ordering us off the beaches are squeezed in rooms with their staff and lobbyists hatching another political effort of one sort or another. The words "misinformation" have become a near joke.
- Stratoscope 5y ago
  > I was told that the vent made the N95 ineffective. Obviously wrong, I was certainly protected... You were protected, but the people around you weren't. The vent is a one-way valve. It blocks air from coming in, so it has to filter through the mask material. It allows air to go out freely with no filtering. So a vented N95 mask protects the wearer from external particles, but it does not protect others from particles exhaled by the wearer. Vented N95 masks are meant for places like construction sites that may have dust and toxic particles in the air. They protect you when you breathe in, but let you breathe out freely. They are not suited for preventing the spread of disease.

e0a74c 5y ago

> The site recommends using DDG as a search engine. There was a time that this wasn’t a fringe idea. Is that considered fringe now? Has it been appropriated by some radicalized group in the US?

jaywalk 5y ago
Distrusting massive corporations is a far-right opinion now, apparently.
- Ostrogodsky 5y ago
  The brainwash the powerful social media companies have done to the masses in the last 10 years it is a thing of beauty. Criminal and immoral beauty. Now supporting Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, behemoths which represent the excess of capitalism is considered hip, cool and progressive.
  - e0a74c 5y ago
    > Now supporting Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, behemoths which represent the excess of capitalism is considered hip, cool and progressive. Isn't that great though? If it's now hip and cool, even the dumb/vain people will do the right thing (albeit for the wrong reasons) which should ultimately strengthen the alternatives to Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.