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I think that people thinking that mind altering substances cannot be a useful tool should keep an open mind about it and let those people who are getting real r

I think that people thinking that mind altering substances cannot be a useful tool should keep an open mind about it and let those people who are getting real results out of it keep doing their thing. And yes these people do exist. They are not going to be too open about it because of how taboo it is. It’s well known that many of the greatest rock bands, highly productive mathematicians like Paul Erdos and comedians like George Carlin found great benefits in the disciplined use of mind altering substances. Not the addictive side which he regretted but the occasional one as a creative boost. Steve Jobs swore that it changed him. Not that it was perfect but he himself claimed it played a pivotal role in shaping him into the unique person that he was. There are peer reviewed studies that show that psychedelics are among the most effective tools for treating depression. ADHD medication is prescribed quite often today and it’s a game changer for many people. This is not without its dangers so proceed with caution and have other people in your life to check on you often. But let’s not deny the enormous power. Why should some stimulants like caffeine or alcohol be permitted for responsible use while others have to be kept away ? Many of them are less addictive than either. And besides far beyond any argument about utility it’s also one about aesthetics and spirituality. It’s an entire new dimension to the human experience. If you don’t have a good track record of practicing moderation then stay away.

vlovich123 5y ago
That may be the case but we should also be careful to not assume that people under the influence are able to accurately evaluate its impact on their performance. Nor should we extrapolate on the general impact based on the experiences of some. Not everyone smoking that jazz cabbage is a Steve Jobs. And there’s no guarantee that the change it has is good for that person (eg triggering some latent susceptibility to schizophrenia as we know LSD can do from the MK Ultra experiments)
- couchand 5y ago
  I do like the sound of "jazz cabbage", but I think you're using it derisively and possibly with a tinge of racism. And that makes me sad.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    I got it from Fake Doctors, Real Friends. I think the perception of derision/racism is solely on your end.
noah_buddy 5y ago
Paul Erdos took uppers, specifically Ritalin and caffeine, IIRC. Carlin was pretty vocal about the majorly negative impacts of drug abuse on his life and even went to rehab. Prior discussion on Erdos, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2497420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2497420
- frank_nitti 5y ago
  Carlin made a very clear exception for marijuana for his creative work. https://youtu.be/nCGGWeD_EJk?t=6m50s https://youtu.be/nCGGWeD_EJk?t=6m50s I understand the comment thread you are responding to is lumping many psychoactive substances together, but the authors of the posted study were careful to distinguish this.
  - thewarrior 5y ago
    Yes exactly.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> highly productive mathematicians like Paul Erdos I think Paul Erdos' stimulant usage has been blown out of proportion. According to his biography, he took "10 to 20 milligrams of Benzedrine or Ritalin" ( https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/hoffman-man.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/ho... ) which is, believe it or not, lower than a lot of people's commonly prescribed ADHD doses today. Erdos also published a lot of his best works before taking up non-caffeine stimulants, so it wasn't exactly the driving force behind his productivity. Anyone using Erdos to justify an excessive or non-prescribed/non-medical stimulant habit has misunderstood the history. > Steve Jobs swore that it changed him. Steve Jobs was also famously terrible to everyone around him and died prematurely because he firmly believed he could cure pancreatic cancer with an all-fruit diet. Which of his properties are we to ascribe to the mind-altering drugs and which are we to overlook? Again, using Steve Jobs to justify drug consumption (or anything, really) is missing the point that he was a unique person.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Jobs also took acid because he was in the generation where it was commonplace. Gates also did it, too. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-once-coyly-defended-162300612.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-once-coyly-defende...
  - thewarrior 5y ago
    And that generation was a powerhouse of business, innovation and culture. Counter culture laid the foundation for what we now call Silicon Valley.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      Yeah, but that doesn't mean they were high when they were working.
      - twangist 5y ago
        Yeah, but they were when thinking about what to work on.

vlovich123 5y ago

That may be the case but we should also be careful to not assume that people under the influence are able to accurately evaluate its impact on their performance. Nor should we extrapolate on the general impact based on the experiences of some. Not everyone smoking that jazz cabbage is a Steve Jobs. And there’s no guarantee that the change it has is good for that person (eg triggering some latent susceptibility to schizophrenia as we know LSD can do from the MK Ultra experiments)

couchand 5y ago
I do like the sound of "jazz cabbage", but I think you're using it derisively and possibly with a tinge of racism. And that makes me sad.
- vlovich123 5y ago
  I got it from Fake Doctors, Real Friends. I think the perception of derision/racism is solely on your end.

noah_buddy 5y ago

Paul Erdos took uppers, specifically Ritalin and caffeine, IIRC. Carlin was pretty vocal about the majorly negative impacts of drug abuse on his life and even went to rehab. Prior discussion on Erdos, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2497420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2497420

frank_nitti 5y ago
Carlin made a very clear exception for marijuana for his creative work. https://youtu.be/nCGGWeD_EJk?t=6m50s https://youtu.be/nCGGWeD_EJk?t=6m50s I understand the comment thread you are responding to is lumping many psychoactive substances together, but the authors of the posted study were careful to distinguish this.
- thewarrior 5y ago
  Yes exactly.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> highly productive mathematicians like Paul Erdos I think Paul Erdos' stimulant usage has been blown out of proportion. According to his biography, he took "10 to 20 milligrams of Benzedrine or Ritalin" ( https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/hoffman-man.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/ho... ) which is, believe it or not, lower than a lot of people's commonly prescribed ADHD doses today. Erdos also published a lot of his best works before taking up non-caffeine stimulants, so it wasn't exactly the driving force behind his productivity. Anyone using Erdos to justify an excessive or non-prescribed/non-medical stimulant habit has misunderstood the history. > Steve Jobs swore that it changed him. Steve Jobs was also famously terrible to everyone around him and died prematurely because he firmly believed he could cure pancreatic cancer with an all-fruit diet. Which of his properties are we to ascribe to the mind-altering drugs and which are we to overlook? Again, using Steve Jobs to justify drug consumption (or anything, really) is missing the point that he was a unique person.

Apocryphon 5y ago
Jobs also took acid because he was in the generation where it was commonplace. Gates also did it, too. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-once-coyly-defended-162300612.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-once-coyly-defende...
- thewarrior 5y ago
  And that generation was a powerhouse of business, innovation and culture. Counter culture laid the foundation for what we now call Silicon Valley.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Yeah, but that doesn't mean they were high when they were working.
    - twangist 5y ago
      Yeah, but they were when thinking about what to work on.