9 ms·

Was this conclusion informed by primary evidence (please link), or from decades of ideological conditioning by Western establishment media?

roenxi 5y ago
Yeah it is based on evidence. There is no way they can have achieved the outcome the stats are claiming. Wikipedia says they have 100k cases in a population of 1.4 billion, or 0.007% of the population caught the coronavirus. That compares to New Zealand - a tiny, wealthy, well organised island nation with a near perfect border quarantine and easy conditions for contract tracing - where 0.2% of the country is known to have caught the coronavirus. China did not have 1-2 orders of magnitude less cases than New Zealand (which is already going to be an outlier). The country is large and COVID is hard to control. Their stats are impossible. Having facial recognition tech and being willing to use it can't get the result the numbers claim. They got hit by a novel virus in the middle of Chinese New Year and they are having the same problem with outbreaks as literally everyone else. Plus we know they aren't trying to publish accurate stats because they vaccinated most of the country in a few day according to the data that filtered back into the western media. They may not necessarily be malicious but the Chinese are certainly not accurate and timely with their statistics.
- pphysch 5y ago
  > Their stats are impossible. Here is the ideological conditioning coming into play. You have been conditioned to believing that it is impossible for the Chinese to do things better than the West. If they do, they must be cheating/stealing IP/fudging the numbers.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    The best responses to the coronavirus have all been in Asia and Oceania - places that were scared by SARS and prepared themselves. South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, Taiwan, Singapore etc. Those are what a gold standard, world leading responses (with favourable conditions) look like. They are reporting believable numbers for an excellent response. China is not. Singapore alone had double the number of cases that China is reporting. Singapore! It is totally incredible, impossible, not remotely plausible and a poorly conceived joke that China's confirmed COVID number represents the number of people in China who had COVID. China is not outperforming those countries on a per-capita basis in the happy reality we all live in. There is - I repeat myself - literally no way they could have achieved that. Maybe it is equalling them, though I doubt that too as a practical matter. The Chinese work hard, are organised and have intelligent people working in their government. But what they don't have is a magic spell to make COVID disappear the way the stats suggest it has. The stats are not real.
    - pphysch 5y ago
      > It is totally incredible, impossible, not remotely plausible and a poorly conceived joke that China's confirmed COVID number represents the number of people in China who had COVID. Why is it so hard for you to accept? China is easily the least individualistic, and most collectivist, of the major Asian economies. Chinese people, and its government, generally value social harmony over individual freedoms. This makes dealing with transmissible disease outbreaks a no-brainer -- you quarantine and do whatever it takes to prevent things from spreading. Of course, executing this correctly is only possible because the CCP is the most effective bureaucracy in human history (enabled by technology, of course).
      - roenxi 5y ago
        I'm going a bit further than not accepting them, I'm almost at the point of chuckling at the idea that you believe them. Your justification here for China having the most effective bureaucracy in human history is that they've lied to you with a straight face. Which is ironic since they probably do have the most efficient bureaucracy in human history. You've been suckered, these numbers are transparently divorced from reality. In the worst case they are lying to us. In the best case they just aren't bothering to report the stats that they keep internally. "China is easily the least individualistic, and most collectivist, of the major Asian economies."? They have a population of 1.4 billion people! A full 17% of the earth's population! Sure on average they may be fairly communal, but that doesn't change the fact there will be some really huge pockets of weirdness that will get COVID (much like Singapore where the problem was ghettos and the disease was contained elsewhere). They aren't going to be enforcing any sort of uniformity over a country that big without switching on the mind-control waves in Ye Olde 5G infrastructure. Which is to say, they aren't. There has been at least one million-person COVID outbreak in China. Probably more than that. > you quarantine and do whatever it takes You're handwaving the part where you come up with a theory on how this is possible. Other countries tried better quarantines than China can achieve. Like Taiwan.
        pphysch 5y ago
        You clearly don't have the barest understanding about China or how its government works. I recommended watching the American PBS documentary China's War on Poverty (which was taken off air by Washington censors) for a quick glimpse into the real China. You can find uploads on YouTube, probably.

roenxi 5y ago

Yeah it is based on evidence. There is no way they can have achieved the outcome the stats are claiming. Wikipedia says they have 100k cases in a population of 1.4 billion, or 0.007% of the population caught the coronavirus. That compares to New Zealand - a tiny, wealthy, well organised island nation with a near perfect border quarantine and easy conditions for contract tracing - where 0.2% of the country is known to have caught the coronavirus. China did not have 1-2 orders of magnitude less cases than New Zealand (which is already going to be an outlier). The country is large and COVID is hard to control. Their stats are impossible. Having facial recognition tech and being willing to use it can't get the result the numbers claim. They got hit by a novel virus in the middle of Chinese New Year and they are having the same problem with outbreaks as literally everyone else. Plus we know they aren't trying to publish accurate stats because they vaccinated most of the country in a few day according to the data that filtered back into the western media. They may not necessarily be malicious but the Chinese are certainly not accurate and timely with their statistics.

pphysch 5y ago
> Their stats are impossible. Here is the ideological conditioning coming into play. You have been conditioned to believing that it is impossible for the Chinese to do things better than the West. If they do, they must be cheating/stealing IP/fudging the numbers.
- roenxi 5y ago
  The best responses to the coronavirus have all been in Asia and Oceania - places that were scared by SARS and prepared themselves. South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, Taiwan, Singapore etc. Those are what a gold standard, world leading responses (with favourable conditions) look like. They are reporting believable numbers for an excellent response. China is not. Singapore alone had double the number of cases that China is reporting. Singapore! It is totally incredible, impossible, not remotely plausible and a poorly conceived joke that China's confirmed COVID number represents the number of people in China who had COVID. China is not outperforming those countries on a per-capita basis in the happy reality we all live in. There is - I repeat myself - literally no way they could have achieved that. Maybe it is equalling them, though I doubt that too as a practical matter. The Chinese work hard, are organised and have intelligent people working in their government. But what they don't have is a magic spell to make COVID disappear the way the stats suggest it has. The stats are not real.
  - pphysch 5y ago
    > It is totally incredible, impossible, not remotely plausible and a poorly conceived joke that China's confirmed COVID number represents the number of people in China who had COVID. Why is it so hard for you to accept? China is easily the least individualistic, and most collectivist, of the major Asian economies. Chinese people, and its government, generally value social harmony over individual freedoms. This makes dealing with transmissible disease outbreaks a no-brainer -- you quarantine and do whatever it takes to prevent things from spreading. Of course, executing this correctly is only possible because the CCP is the most effective bureaucracy in human history (enabled by technology, of course).
    - roenxi 5y ago
      I'm going a bit further than not accepting them, I'm almost at the point of chuckling at the idea that you believe them. Your justification here for China having the most effective bureaucracy in human history is that they've lied to you with a straight face. Which is ironic since they probably do have the most efficient bureaucracy in human history. You've been suckered, these numbers are transparently divorced from reality. In the worst case they are lying to us. In the best case they just aren't bothering to report the stats that they keep internally. "China is easily the least individualistic, and most collectivist, of the major Asian economies."? They have a population of 1.4 billion people! A full 17% of the earth's population! Sure on average they may be fairly communal, but that doesn't change the fact there will be some really huge pockets of weirdness that will get COVID (much like Singapore where the problem was ghettos and the disease was contained elsewhere). They aren't going to be enforcing any sort of uniformity over a country that big without switching on the mind-control waves in Ye Olde 5G infrastructure. Which is to say, they aren't. There has been at least one million-person COVID outbreak in China. Probably more than that. > you quarantine and do whatever it takes You're handwaving the part where you come up with a theory on how this is possible. Other countries tried better quarantines than China can achieve. Like Taiwan.
      - pphysch 5y ago
        You clearly don't have the barest understanding about China or how its government works. I recommended watching the American PBS documentary China's War on Poverty (which was taken off air by Washington censors) for a quick glimpse into the real China. You can find uploads on YouTube, probably.