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I was about to praise this tool for exposing the artificial scarcity that are NFTs. It is trivial to mint your own copy. Then I read the following in the FAQ:

I was about to praise this tool for exposing the artificial scarcity that are NFTs. It is trivial to mint your own copy. Then I read the following in the FAQ: > The price for a replica starts at 0.001 ETH. Each time a particular NFT piece is replicated, its next replication cost will double. So be sure to replicate popular pieces early!

andybak 5y ago
So somebody will launch a rival without this limitation. The quicker can we play through this entire thing, the sooner it will be over.
Kiro 5y ago
They are not copies though. They are replicas. The original is still unique. You're buying an entry on the blockchain and the scarcity of that is real.
- andybak 5y ago
  > the scarcity of that is real. Scarcity on it's own does not equal value. The value comes either from social consensus or direct utility. Real numbers are scarce. There's only one of each.
  - theWreckluse 5y ago
    > Real numbers are scarce. There’s only one of each. This gives me ideas! Who wants to join me in this new fad?
    - andybak 5y ago
      I've already claimed all the rationals so hurry up.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    Scarcity on it's own does not equal value This is an important point that a lot of the crypto bros don't seem to grasp. Antiques and thrift stores are crammed with millions of things that are scarce. One-of-a-kind, even. But still nobody wants them. Eventually the cost of storing them becomes more than they're worth, and they go into the trash.
  - loceng 5y ago
    This thread is the perfect example of a lack of grounded thinking in the Bitcoin/crypto community - a disconnect from practical reality. I first noticed this incongruence with time tested business models when all Bitcoin related business plans/pitch decks, they'd never even list price comparisons as a competitive factor - arguably the #1 most important metric to address when wanting to disrupt an industry or model.
    - Kiro 5y ago
      I don't think the crypto community thinks it's magically is something it's not. Most serious NFT investors are probably well aware that all they're buying is just a ledger entry. Blockchain has almost no practical uses right now but it does provide a way to make something digitally unique, even if it's just a JSON with an ID and an URL. Not saying the data is unique but the ledger entry is. Only one wallet can own it at a time and it's easily proven. Maybe it will never have any practical applications but I don't see how that could be done without a blockchain.
- danuker 5y ago
  How can you tell the whether a given piece is original? You'd have to build a database of all NFTs in order to check. And perhaps the new image is slightly altered making it original.
  - Kiro 5y ago
    You see that it was minted by Wallet X, which the artist has confirmed is theirs. The image it's pointing to is irrelevant. You're buying a unique digital signature. Is it inherently valuable? No, but it's scarce. There's only one such entry on the blockchain and it can only be owned by one wallet at a time.
    - miracle2k 5y ago
      Right. You just ask the artist. And if you don't care who the artist is, then you can always buy the replica.
      - Kiro 5y ago
        Yes, and I think a lot of people don't understand what they're buying and are just blinded by the hype. However, what gives say an NFT of one of Tyler Hobbs generative art paintings value is the fact that it was issued by Tyler Hobbs as part of his Fidenza collection. A random person uploading the same painting wouldn't be worth much if anything, unless the person buying it was tricked into thinking it was part of the original collection.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      But anyone can create infinite ledgers and create their own entries on those ledgers all day. Snowflakes are unique too, but that doesn't mean any of them are particularly valuable.
      - Kiro 5y ago
        What matters is who issued it. If you buy an NFT of a Tyler Hobbs painting it's valuable because it was minted by Tyler Hobbs. That one is on one ledger only and even if he himself starts putting it on multiple ledgers it would devalue itself naturally. It's all a social construct.
- contravariant 5y ago
  The word 'artificial' is similar but not quite the same as 'fake'.
- vanusa 5y ago
  You're buying an entry on the blockchain and the scarcity of that is real. Except that unlike the original object, or even a replica, "an entry on the blockchain" has -- no intrinsic value whatsoever. It's basically like you're buying the rights to a "Like" on that painting, or trading card, or whatever. Nothing more. My hunch though is that 90 percent of the people buying these things are utterly oblivious to this distinction. And that, plus "it's new" and "it's value is just going to keep skyrocketing" is essentially what is driving the NFT "market" as such.
  - Kiro 5y ago
    I don't claim it has intrinsic value (what has?) but it's still scarce. There's one entry on the blockchain and it's unique, even if it's just a number and a trace to the original wallet. I also don't disagree with your second paragraph.
    - vanusa 5y ago
      I don't claim it has intrinsic value (what has?) Gosh, I don't know -- a loaf of bread? A shiny new car? Do you understand the meaning of the word, actually? But it's still scarce. So what?
      - Kiro 5y ago
        Why the attitude? I'm responding to a post saying it is not actually scarce and explaining why I think it is. I'm not arguing for NFTs, but even if I did I don't think it warrants such a snarky response. Anyway, my point with that parentheses was that there are a lot of things that has no intrinsic value but still has value on the market.
        vanusa 5y ago
        Why the attitude? I didn't mean to come across with attitude. Only that your question about intrinsic value seemed rather .. weird. My point with that parentheses was that there are a lot of things that has no intrinsic value but still has value on the market. Can you provide some examples, please? I can think of plenty of market assets which have what we might say is slightly abstract kind of value -- "brands", naming rights to stadiums, etc -- but still, it's pretty straightforward to see the intrinsic utility they provide, and that this easily translates to dollars. With NFTs though -- there just isn't it any. Other than to sell to the next sucker in line. EDIT: Wait, I can think of one asset class that compares to NFTs: signed sports memorabilia. Which of course have crap resale value (except for items signed by ancient players like Joe Dimaggio). But the modern versions team franchises regularly crank out -- not so much.
- NelsonMinar 5y ago
  I own the only unique real copy of c6922832e65b60ab8517d7c1c5fd5911. Its scarcity, too, is real.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Hey, I own 6dee29bc-8798-4560-ba13-de94bac69333! We should start a club. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29509473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29509473
    - NelsonMinar 5y ago
      The remarkable thing about artisanal integers is there's an infinite number of them and yet each one is a beautiful hand-crafted keepsake. http://www.neverendingbooks.org/artisanal-integers http://www.neverendingbooks.org/artisanal-integers
  - Kiro 5y ago
    Not sure what you're saying here but if you put c6922832e65b60ab8517d7c1c5fd5911 as a token on the blockchain there will indeed only be one with only one owner (you). The uniqueness is that it was minted by your wallet. There cannot be another entry like that. NFTs are mostly just that. An ID minted by Wallet X which itself is unique and the social contract gives it a value. That's it.
    - NelsonMinar 5y ago
      Thank goodness your use of c6922832e65b60ab8517d7c1c5fd5911 did not impinge on my personal ownership of this valuable number. Plznorightclick.
      - Kiro 5y ago
        Alright. I take it you don't want to discuss this seriously.
        5y ago
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
They also have: > Why can't I replicate a replica? > Do you want black holes? Because that's how you get black holes. Pretty sure the pricing is part of the whole joke[0]. It sounds an awful lot like the fictional cryptocurrency I came up with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26120703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26120703 [0] God I do hope it is a joke
globetro 5y ago
I'm the creator of this tool. I understand the skepticism on that bit, but the reason I put the doubling price thing in was to just encourage some mild amount of urgency to at least make a transaction. In practicality, with the abundance of popular NFTs out there and the starting price of just 0.001 ETH (which is around 4 bucks), I'm not exactly expecting to make much from this. Hell, it cost me over $400 in gas fees just to deploy the contract, I'd be counting my lucky stars if I even recoup that! And to be clear, the price doubling is not global, but applied to each specific source NFT.

andybak 5y ago

So somebody will launch a rival without this limitation. The quicker can we play through this entire thing, the sooner it will be over.

Kiro 5y ago

They are not copies though. They are replicas. The original is still unique. You're buying an entry on the blockchain and the scarcity of that is real.

andybak 5y ago
> the scarcity of that is real. Scarcity on it's own does not equal value. The value comes either from social consensus or direct utility. Real numbers are scarce. There's only one of each.
- theWreckluse 5y ago
  > Real numbers are scarce. There’s only one of each. This gives me ideas! Who wants to join me in this new fad?
  - andybak 5y ago
    I've already claimed all the rationals so hurry up.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Scarcity on it's own does not equal value This is an important point that a lot of the crypto bros don't seem to grasp. Antiques and thrift stores are crammed with millions of things that are scarce. One-of-a-kind, even. But still nobody wants them. Eventually the cost of storing them becomes more than they're worth, and they go into the trash.
- loceng 5y ago
  This thread is the perfect example of a lack of grounded thinking in the Bitcoin/crypto community - a disconnect from practical reality. I first noticed this incongruence with time tested business models when all Bitcoin related business plans/pitch decks, they'd never even list price comparisons as a competitive factor - arguably the #1 most important metric to address when wanting to disrupt an industry or model.
  - Kiro 5y ago
    I don't think the crypto community thinks it's magically is something it's not. Most serious NFT investors are probably well aware that all they're buying is just a ledger entry. Blockchain has almost no practical uses right now but it does provide a way to make something digitally unique, even if it's just a JSON with an ID and an URL. Not saying the data is unique but the ledger entry is. Only one wallet can own it at a time and it's easily proven. Maybe it will never have any practical applications but I don't see how that could be done without a blockchain.
danuker 5y ago
How can you tell the whether a given piece is original? You'd have to build a database of all NFTs in order to check. And perhaps the new image is slightly altered making it original.
- Kiro 5y ago
  You see that it was minted by Wallet X, which the artist has confirmed is theirs. The image it's pointing to is irrelevant. You're buying a unique digital signature. Is it inherently valuable? No, but it's scarce. There's only one such entry on the blockchain and it can only be owned by one wallet at a time.
  - miracle2k 5y ago
    Right. You just ask the artist. And if you don't care who the artist is, then you can always buy the replica.
    - Kiro 5y ago
      Yes, and I think a lot of people don't understand what they're buying and are just blinded by the hype. However, what gives say an NFT of one of Tyler Hobbs generative art paintings value is the fact that it was issued by Tyler Hobbs as part of his Fidenza collection. A random person uploading the same painting wouldn't be worth much if anything, unless the person buying it was tricked into thinking it was part of the original collection.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    But anyone can create infinite ledgers and create their own entries on those ledgers all day. Snowflakes are unique too, but that doesn't mean any of them are particularly valuable.
    - Kiro 5y ago
      What matters is who issued it. If you buy an NFT of a Tyler Hobbs painting it's valuable because it was minted by Tyler Hobbs. That one is on one ledger only and even if he himself starts putting it on multiple ledgers it would devalue itself naturally. It's all a social construct.
contravariant 5y ago
The word 'artificial' is similar but not quite the same as 'fake'.
vanusa 5y ago
You're buying an entry on the blockchain and the scarcity of that is real. Except that unlike the original object, or even a replica, "an entry on the blockchain" has -- no intrinsic value whatsoever. It's basically like you're buying the rights to a "Like" on that painting, or trading card, or whatever. Nothing more. My hunch though is that 90 percent of the people buying these things are utterly oblivious to this distinction. And that, plus "it's new" and "it's value is just going to keep skyrocketing" is essentially what is driving the NFT "market" as such.
- Kiro 5y ago
  I don't claim it has intrinsic value (what has?) but it's still scarce. There's one entry on the blockchain and it's unique, even if it's just a number and a trace to the original wallet. I also don't disagree with your second paragraph.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    I don't claim it has intrinsic value (what has?) Gosh, I don't know -- a loaf of bread? A shiny new car? Do you understand the meaning of the word, actually? But it's still scarce. So what?
    - Kiro 5y ago
      Why the attitude? I'm responding to a post saying it is not actually scarce and explaining why I think it is. I'm not arguing for NFTs, but even if I did I don't think it warrants such a snarky response. Anyway, my point with that parentheses was that there are a lot of things that has no intrinsic value but still has value on the market.
      - vanusa 5y ago
        Why the attitude? I didn't mean to come across with attitude. Only that your question about intrinsic value seemed rather .. weird. My point with that parentheses was that there are a lot of things that has no intrinsic value but still has value on the market. Can you provide some examples, please? I can think of plenty of market assets which have what we might say is slightly abstract kind of value -- "brands", naming rights to stadiums, etc -- but still, it's pretty straightforward to see the intrinsic utility they provide, and that this easily translates to dollars. With NFTs though -- there just isn't it any. Other than to sell to the next sucker in line. EDIT: Wait, I can think of one asset class that compares to NFTs: signed sports memorabilia. Which of course have crap resale value (except for items signed by ancient players like Joe Dimaggio). But the modern versions team franchises regularly crank out -- not so much.
NelsonMinar 5y ago
I own the only unique real copy of c6922832e65b60ab8517d7c1c5fd5911. Its scarcity, too, is real.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Hey, I own 6dee29bc-8798-4560-ba13-de94bac69333! We should start a club. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29509473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29509473
  - NelsonMinar 5y ago
    The remarkable thing about artisanal integers is there's an infinite number of them and yet each one is a beautiful hand-crafted keepsake. http://www.neverendingbooks.org/artisanal-integers http://www.neverendingbooks.org/artisanal-integers
- Kiro 5y ago
  Not sure what you're saying here but if you put c6922832e65b60ab8517d7c1c5fd5911 as a token on the blockchain there will indeed only be one with only one owner (you). The uniqueness is that it was minted by your wallet. There cannot be another entry like that. NFTs are mostly just that. An ID minted by Wallet X which itself is unique and the social contract gives it a value. That's it.
  - NelsonMinar 5y ago
    Thank goodness your use of c6922832e65b60ab8517d7c1c5fd5911 did not impinge on my personal ownership of this valuable number. Plznorightclick.
    - Kiro 5y ago
      Alright. I take it you don't want to discuss this seriously.
      - 5y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

They also have: > Why can't I replicate a replica? > Do you want black holes? Because that's how you get black holes. Pretty sure the pricing is part of the whole joke[0]. It sounds an awful lot like the fictional cryptocurrency I came up with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26120703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26120703 [0] God I do hope it is a joke

globetro 5y ago

I'm the creator of this tool. I understand the skepticism on that bit, but the reason I put the doubling price thing in was to just encourage some mild amount of urgency to at least make a transaction. In practicality, with the abundance of popular NFTs out there and the starting price of just 0.001 ETH (which is around 4 bucks), I'm not exactly expecting to make much from this. Hell, it cost me over $400 in gas fees just to deploy the contract, I'd be counting my lucky stars if I even recoup that! And to be clear, the price doubling is not global, but applied to each specific source NFT.