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It doesn't help that many of those services have used their power to basically become the only available option. Take YouTube for example, there are basically

It doesn't help that many of those services have used their power to basically become the only available option. Take YouTube for example, there are basically zero alternatives out there. It is such a dominating force for watching videos. I have basically cut all of google out of my life as much as possible, but YouTube is the one that you can't drop for the random video that you may want to watch. I have zero qualms about using a third party service while "mooching" off of google. Many others in this list are similar, reddit... discord... etc. I would not have an issue supporting those companies with a monthly subscription if they did not pull shady stuff. These companies are way too comfortable abusing their users. I was trying to get support from Microsoft for a product I bought. With pihole on my network I was unable to load chat because someone had the bright idea to host the css and js for it on their ad domain.

endisneigh 5y ago
You can purchase for YouTube Premium and get rid of ads. I don’t see how people can justify blocking the ads. Content producers need people to view the ads to get paid. I’m sure at your workplace you wouldn’t like people using your services or consuming your products without paying in some form.
- rebeccaskinner 5y ago
  Ad-free tiers, in the rare cases they are offered at all, are never surveillance free tiers. While I’m personally opposed to all advertisement, the surveillance is really the massive problem with modern ad-tech and there’s just no sense at throwing money at offerings that continue to do all the surveillance and just don’t show the ad.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    Ads have been the only proven way for many people on the web to monetize sustainably. If you have another way that works there’s a lot of money out there ripe for the taking.
    - rebeccaskinner 5y ago
      A lot of what’s funded through ads on the web is garbage the world would be better off without anyway. For the rest, I don’t think there’s a single silver bullet answer. We can’t take the world as it exists today and swap out ads for something less harmful without other changes in the landscape. A world without a surveillance driven internet would look very different to the one we have today in far more ways than just the lack of ads. Unfortunately momentum is hard to overcome, and even with a good monetization strategy for a single product it’s impossible to shift the market without also trying to more broadly shift consumer behavior to make the current state less profitable and to push the industry to more collectively and broadly searching for alternatives.
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      >Ads have been the only proven way for many people on the web to monetize sustainably. That's as may be, but it's not my responsibility to view ads or accept tracking/surveillance on my private property. If you (as a website or other resource) want to monetize the content on your private property/hosted resource, I have no issue with that. At all. However, I choose to limit tracking/ads on my private property. That doesn't force you to do anything. If you want to require viewing of ads/allowing tracking (which some sites do) in order to access content, that's fine with me too. But I'm under no obligation to allow ads/tracking on my private property. It's not about circumvention or wanting to "deprive" someone of compensation for their hard work. Rather, it's about limiting the amount of tracking/surveillance about me and my private property. I don't agree to be tracked or advertised to. Full stop. If folks don't want to share their content with me because I don't agree to be tracked/shown ads, then those folks need to take action. I have nothing to do or say about that. But I do have the right to control what is displayed/executed on my private property, which includes my browser. That's not "stealing," that's protecting my own interests.
- nerdjon 5y ago
  Does YouTube premium get rid of all the google tracking every single thing I do across the internet? No it does not, even worse due to the nature of it being a paid product I have to be logged into Google giving them even more data. Ads are not the real issue here. It is the tracking and privacy invasive practices that these companies like google practice. You may pay for YouTube premium, but you are still the product to google.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    Yes, that’s the business model for search, and for social media in general. I don’t have an issue necessarily with blocking tracking, my issue is with people trying to use YouTube without allowing the content creators to be compensated.
    - nerdjon 5y ago
      The problem is, the 2 have been intertwined. Largely thanks to google, ads are how we are tracked (or at least one of the ways). if I want to block tracking, I am blocking ads (among other things).
      - endisneigh 5y ago
        Sure, but in the case of YouTube and Reddit you can pay and and get rid of ads whilst be tracked.
        nerdjon 5y ago
        I will NOT reward a company for continuing to track me after I pay them. You are missing the issue here. I will pay a company if they do not engage in these shady behaviors. But they nearly all do, so I refuse to give them money to remove one thing (the ads) but continue to track.
        endisneigh 5y ago
        I’m not sure what the issue is - Google never says if you pay you won’t be tracked, they say you won’t see ads. The question is, will you indulge in YouTube anyway and deprive them from ad revenue n or will you just not use YouTube?
- gaius_baltar 5y ago
  YouTube Premium is not a solution, it actually makes the problem worse by requiring you to log in using an account that is also tied to your real world identity (for payment processing). You just end up giving more data points to Google to track.

endisneigh 5y ago

You can purchase for YouTube Premium and get rid of ads. I don’t see how people can justify blocking the ads. Content producers need people to view the ads to get paid. I’m sure at your workplace you wouldn’t like people using your services or consuming your products without paying in some form.

rebeccaskinner 5y ago
Ad-free tiers, in the rare cases they are offered at all, are never surveillance free tiers. While I’m personally opposed to all advertisement, the surveillance is really the massive problem with modern ad-tech and there’s just no sense at throwing money at offerings that continue to do all the surveillance and just don’t show the ad.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  Ads have been the only proven way for many people on the web to monetize sustainably. If you have another way that works there’s a lot of money out there ripe for the taking.
  - rebeccaskinner 5y ago
    A lot of what’s funded through ads on the web is garbage the world would be better off without anyway. For the rest, I don’t think there’s a single silver bullet answer. We can’t take the world as it exists today and swap out ads for something less harmful without other changes in the landscape. A world without a surveillance driven internet would look very different to the one we have today in far more ways than just the lack of ads. Unfortunately momentum is hard to overcome, and even with a good monetization strategy for a single product it’s impossible to shift the market without also trying to more broadly shift consumer behavior to make the current state less profitable and to push the industry to more collectively and broadly searching for alternatives.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >Ads have been the only proven way for many people on the web to monetize sustainably. That's as may be, but it's not my responsibility to view ads or accept tracking/surveillance on my private property. If you (as a website or other resource) want to monetize the content on your private property/hosted resource, I have no issue with that. At all. However, I choose to limit tracking/ads on my private property. That doesn't force you to do anything. If you want to require viewing of ads/allowing tracking (which some sites do) in order to access content, that's fine with me too. But I'm under no obligation to allow ads/tracking on my private property. It's not about circumvention or wanting to "deprive" someone of compensation for their hard work. Rather, it's about limiting the amount of tracking/surveillance about me and my private property. I don't agree to be tracked or advertised to. Full stop. If folks don't want to share their content with me because I don't agree to be tracked/shown ads, then those folks need to take action. I have nothing to do or say about that. But I do have the right to control what is displayed/executed on my private property, which includes my browser. That's not "stealing," that's protecting my own interests.
nerdjon 5y ago
Does YouTube premium get rid of all the google tracking every single thing I do across the internet? No it does not, even worse due to the nature of it being a paid product I have to be logged into Google giving them even more data. Ads are not the real issue here. It is the tracking and privacy invasive practices that these companies like google practice. You may pay for YouTube premium, but you are still the product to google.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  Yes, that’s the business model for search, and for social media in general. I don’t have an issue necessarily with blocking tracking, my issue is with people trying to use YouTube without allowing the content creators to be compensated.
  - nerdjon 5y ago
    The problem is, the 2 have been intertwined. Largely thanks to google, ads are how we are tracked (or at least one of the ways). if I want to block tracking, I am blocking ads (among other things).
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      Sure, but in the case of YouTube and Reddit you can pay and and get rid of ads whilst be tracked.
      - nerdjon 5y ago
        I will NOT reward a company for continuing to track me after I pay them. You are missing the issue here. I will pay a company if they do not engage in these shady behaviors. But they nearly all do, so I refuse to give them money to remove one thing (the ads) but continue to track.
        endisneigh 5y ago
        I’m not sure what the issue is - Google never says if you pay you won’t be tracked, they say you won’t see ads. The question is, will you indulge in YouTube anyway and deprive them from ad revenue n or will you just not use YouTube?
gaius_baltar 5y ago
YouTube Premium is not a solution, it actually makes the problem worse by requiring you to log in using an account that is also tied to your real world identity (for payment processing). You just end up giving more data points to Google to track.