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You would need to hire a hardware/ops specialist who can buy, spin up, and maintain physical machines. That's a $100K+ job at any reasonable startup (not counti

• doublerabbit 5y ago
  > You would need to hire a hardware/ops specialist who can buy, spin up, and maintain physical machines. No. You rack the server, connect the cable to the switch press the on-switch, let it boot and then operate as you would with any other computer. Need a new server? Get the DCOps remote hands to Rack the server, cable it to the switch and press the on-switch. If you can install Windows 10, you can install Linux. > This comment just screams of engineer-only focus. Running servers yourself brings almost no value to the customer and is a specialized skill that you have to pay for. Hmm, the data is yours; You own the data and that's value to me if I am the customer. And there's no value to the customer if you were to host it in the cloud either, much of a loss retrospectively. There is no specialized skill you have to pay for, sure if you were going to run a high-density compute mainframe running some specialized OS like AIX then yeah sure. To buy a server, install a OS and plug it in to a switch and navigate it with SSH requires no overqualified anything.
  • BowBun 5y ago
    Configuring a server for high traffic, networking, various safety measures against fire/power, backups, connectivity to your external DBs, etc. etc. As a 'feature dev' of almost a decade, I could bungle my way through this and probably leave a bunch of security gaps open. I'm highlighting the fact that it is a specialized skill and a specific part of the stack that feature devs like me and many other early startup engineers forego for other skills. To your second point: We still own the data for hosted solutions. We have our backups, we have direct access. Barring a catastrophic failure and wiping of AWS, our data is there and ours. The value to our customers for using cloud providers is the time saved on building infrastructure is instead spent on delivering value to the customer in the form of features/bug fixes. And yes I know the argument of "you end up spending more time debugging AWS", but I think you don't need to reach that point if you keep things pretty simple, especially early stage. I think you're vastly oversimplifying the task. And if I had to guess, it's something you're pretty familiar with so it makes sense that it's easy to you! I'm sure an early stage company would be happy to have you to save a ton of money in their early days on infrastructure costs
    • doublerabbit 5y ago
      > Configuring a server for high traffic, networking, various safety measures against fire/power, backups, connectivity to your external DBs, etc. etc. All which you have to do on a cloud provider. Fire/Power are normally handled by the DC. You have to have someone with knowledge in the first place to operate that in the cloud and taking an application such as HAProxy is on the same skill level. Especially with vast fields of blogs you can find on the topic. The cloud brings the instant "power-up" methodology and I would compromise, you could be right. If you want a perfective optimum cloud platform you would need a dedicated "cloud" engineer if you want to ensure security, connectivity etc. etc. But if your going to do that then again you might as well move in-house and hire a system admin, you've still got to operate your companies infrastructure. It's a moot point. > The value to our customers for using cloud providers is the time saved on building infrastructure is instead spent on delivering value to the customer in the form of features/bug fixes. I suppose this is a mixed area and what customers value varies. For me I value a service that uses it's own hardware rather than cloud. On the basis that they are willing to put the skill in to operate their own infrastructure rather than. > I think you're vastly oversimplifying the task. I don't think so. People seem to think that setting up what you can in the cloud is impossible on bare metal when really it isn't. What did devOp's do before the cloud providers? Amazon,Azure,X have only lassoed FOSS software, constructed a webGUI-admin panel and throw it as a service. This is not to say Cloud doesn't has a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't exist today. > it's something you're pretty familiar with so it makes sense that it's easy to you While true, I won't disagree, I've been working in the SysAdmin field since 2009. But disagree as I started with very little knowledge and gained it through setting up such infrastructures. I've educated a few and those with very little knowledge of servers could setup an infrastructure that companies run in AWS.