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> why Linux still needs oom-killer when Windows can run just fine without such functionality My Windows 10 installation just BSODs when Firefox fills up the RA

> why Linux still needs oom-killer when Windows can run just fine without such functionality My Windows 10 installation just BSODs when Firefox fills up the RAM if the page file is disabled. I'd much prefer the OOM killer.

archerx 5y ago
Chrome just crashes, it seems like the fault may lie with Firefox.
gruez 5y ago
>My Windows 10 installation just BSODs when Firefox fills up the RAM if the page file is disabled. I never had that happen. What actually happens is firefox just crashes, or the screen goes blank for a few seconds while the graphics driver resets.
- kasabali 5y ago
  I get all of those, too. BSOD occurs less often when the system was already pressured with several cycles of the above. But even the graphics driver crashing is already bad enough. If there's not enough memory, offending programs should be crashing, not drivers. (and yes, ram sticks are good and verifed with memtest86 and testmem5)
ferongr 5y ago
Running with the page file disabled is bad. The system runs out of address space, hence the crashes.
justsomehnguy 5y ago
> if the page file is disabled Ouch. Never run Windows without the swap. It can be as small as the system allows (AFAIR 16Mb for Win7), but it should be enabled. While this is the obvious footgun the problem is nobody ever tests with the swap disabled. I've seen very weird behaviour without the swap, the most funny one was when some 3D game (sadly don't remember the name) internal timer went completely nuts without the swap and game was working just fine with the swap enabled.
- kasabali 5y ago
  That's a good point, and I was actually running with 16MB page file at that time (and my reasoning for that was exactly like yours). So unfortunately it's nowhere enough. Funny thing is I clearly remember Windows 7/8.1 showing a warning about memory running low and then killing Firefox. On Windows 10 they managed to bork that, too.
naikrovek 5y ago
why in the blue blazes would you disable the page file? seriously asking. if you're fiddling with that in the 21st century you are Doing It Wrong.
- kasabali 5y ago
  You're missing the main point of my comment while falling to the swap trap: Processes may crash, but kernel shouldn't, period. If it crashes today with no swap while running 5 programs, it'll crash tomorrow with swap enabled while running 10 programs.
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    a kernel panic is sometimes the right thing. "you are doing a bad thing; I quit" is a valid response in extreme circumstances. turning off the page file in Windows in 2021 is an extreme circumstance. a requirement of the kernel is that there is virtual memory space. the page file is part of what enables that on Windows. on Win 8.0 (I think) and before, the page file was nowhere nearly as vital, and you could turn it off in certain situations. an educated user could use their knowledge to know when it was ok to turn it off. new versions of Windows change many things; they are not simple reskins of previous windows versions. the kernel and low level stuff changes a lot, version to version. knowledge that was valid in Windows XP is very likely no longer valid on Windows 10 or 11, and certainly is no longer valid in all situations. keep your knowledge up to date. even things that appear to change relatively slowly, such as Windows, experience a lot of churn at lower levels. the APIs may not change, but their implementations often do.

archerx 5y ago

Chrome just crashes, it seems like the fault may lie with Firefox.

gruez 5y ago

>My Windows 10 installation just BSODs when Firefox fills up the RAM if the page file is disabled. I never had that happen. What actually happens is firefox just crashes, or the screen goes blank for a few seconds while the graphics driver resets.

kasabali 5y ago
I get all of those, too. BSOD occurs less often when the system was already pressured with several cycles of the above. But even the graphics driver crashing is already bad enough. If there's not enough memory, offending programs should be crashing, not drivers. (and yes, ram sticks are good and verifed with memtest86 and testmem5)

ferongr 5y ago

Running with the page file disabled is bad. The system runs out of address space, hence the crashes.

justsomehnguy 5y ago

> if the page file is disabled Ouch. Never run Windows without the swap. It can be as small as the system allows (AFAIR 16Mb for Win7), but it should be enabled. While this is the obvious footgun the problem is nobody ever tests with the swap disabled. I've seen very weird behaviour without the swap, the most funny one was when some 3D game (sadly don't remember the name) internal timer went completely nuts without the swap and game was working just fine with the swap enabled.

kasabali 5y ago
That's a good point, and I was actually running with 16MB page file at that time (and my reasoning for that was exactly like yours). So unfortunately it's nowhere enough. Funny thing is I clearly remember Windows 7/8.1 showing a warning about memory running low and then killing Firefox. On Windows 10 they managed to bork that, too.

naikrovek 5y ago

why in the blue blazes would you disable the page file? seriously asking. if you're fiddling with that in the 21st century you are Doing It Wrong.

kasabali 5y ago
You're missing the main point of my comment while falling to the swap trap: Processes may crash, but kernel shouldn't, period. If it crashes today with no swap while running 5 programs, it'll crash tomorrow with swap enabled while running 10 programs.
- naikrovek 5y ago
  a kernel panic is sometimes the right thing. "you are doing a bad thing; I quit" is a valid response in extreme circumstances. turning off the page file in Windows in 2021 is an extreme circumstance. a requirement of the kernel is that there is virtual memory space. the page file is part of what enables that on Windows. on Win 8.0 (I think) and before, the page file was nowhere nearly as vital, and you could turn it off in certain situations. an educated user could use their knowledge to know when it was ok to turn it off. new versions of Windows change many things; they are not simple reskins of previous windows versions. the kernel and low level stuff changes a lot, version to version. knowledge that was valid in Windows XP is very likely no longer valid on Windows 10 or 11, and certainly is no longer valid in all situations. keep your knowledge up to date. even things that appear to change relatively slowly, such as Windows, experience a lot of churn at lower levels. the APIs may not change, but their implementations often do.