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The number doesn't seem egregious relative to how many workers there are. The Josimar article says > In August, Amnesty released a report that documented that

The number doesn't seem egregious relative to how many workers there are. The Josimar article says > In August, Amnesty released a report that documented that at least 15 000 migrant workers had died since Qatar was awarded the World Cup hosting rights in 2010. So, 15000 deaths over 11 years, or 1,363 deaths per year. Worth noting that this number does not make a distinction between people working in Qatar for the World Cup or just anyone working in Qatar. Wikipedia says 2.3m expats as of 2017[1]. Putting the death rate at 0.59 per 1000 people per year (for 2017, the number of expats has been increasing since 2010, so the number would be higher for 2010, lower for 2021). This would put it at the very bottom of countries based on death rate[2]. (It's already at the very bottom for death rate, but here we're only looking at expats.) TL;DR The number quoted has very little to do with the number of people working on the 2022 World Cup, and isn't really alarming. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_mortality_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_mortality...

dash2 5y ago
Here's the original report so people can check for themselves: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde22/4614/2021/en/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde22/4614/2021/en/ * The death numbers are as reported by Qatar's own statistics agency and Amnesty says there are significant problems with them. * Migrant workers are working age, not elderly, so comparing this to overall death rates is probably misleading. * "69% of deaths of workers from India, Nepal and Bangladesh between 2008 and 2019 were attributed to ‘natural causes’ or ‘cardiac arrest’, and contained no information about the underlying causes of death... experts consulted by Amnesty International have said that in a well-resourced health system, it should be possible to identify the cause of death in all but 1% of cases."
- xvf22 5y ago
  You wonder how many electrocutions are put down as 'cardiac arrest'. I mean yes, but not exactly natural.
  - newaccount74 5y ago
    Heat stroke and dehydration also leads to cardiac arrest.
tda 5y ago
Of course you can't compare general mortality to mortality of people in the prime years of their life. I have personally seen the circumstances in which Indian men work and live in the Middle East and it is not pretty. Whatever comes out/is reported officially, the truth is probably a lot worse
- djrockstar1 5y ago
  I haven't been able to find death rate statistics for people aged 18-30, so I can't really compare the numbers with strictly facts. There is an article from the BBC from 2015 that claims that the number is in line with what would be expected from that age group: > The point officials are making is that there are about half a million Indian workers in Qatar, and about 250 deaths per year - and this, in their view, is not a cause for concern. In fact, Indian government data suggests that back home in India you would expect a far higher proportion to die each year - not 250, but 1,000 in any group of 500,000 25-30-year-old men. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33019838 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33019838
  - wbl 5y ago
    These workers are healthier than the people who die. They are capable of working after all.
  - tda 5y ago
    I also don't have any numbers, so I can't comment on or how or low these are. But I do know that the circumstances in which these men are put to work is are more akin to slave labor then anyone can and should expect. And the conditions are truly extreme as the heat and humidity in the middle east can be enormous. And whilst I can't take the heat for more than a few minute walking, I see these laborers doing 12 hour shifts of hard manual labor every day. So not surprised if more than a few have suffered from fatal heat-strokes.
hluska 5y ago
Some dude on some forum claims 15,000 deaths is fine and provides zero useful sources. We’re supposed to somehow trust your word over that of Amnesty International. What a poorly thought comment…
eru 5y ago
Thanks for running some of the numbers. Conditions for migrant workers in Qatar are certainly not pretty, but we need to be careful to stick to the facts, if we don't want to bullshit ourselves.
throwaway2037 5y ago
In the United States, during 2020: << Of the 1,008 construction worker deaths in 2020, 368 were from falls, slips, or trips, 247 were from transportation injuries, 174 were caused by exposure to harmful substances or environments, and 153 were the result of contact with an object or equipment. >> Source: https://www.constructconnect.com/blog/construction-worker-deaths-decreased-2020 https://www.constructconnect.com/blog/construction-worker-de... Google also tells me by searching << united states Construction Workers 2020 >>: << Number of Jobs, 2020: 1,514,200 >> That sounds rougly equivalent in total construction workers, but US is about 25% lower in rate of death. What is more disturbing to me is the treatment of low-skill migrant workers in Qatar. It is terrifying, and it strikes me as the very definition of a modern slavery economy.

dash2 5y ago

Here's the original report so people can check for themselves: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde22/4614/2021/en/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde22/4614/2021/en/ * The death numbers are as reported by Qatar's own statistics agency and Amnesty says there are significant problems with them. * Migrant workers are working age, not elderly, so comparing this to overall death rates is probably misleading. * "69% of deaths of workers from India, Nepal and Bangladesh between 2008 and 2019 were attributed to ‘natural causes’ or ‘cardiac arrest’, and contained no information about the underlying causes of death... experts consulted by Amnesty International have said that in a well-resourced health system, it should be possible to identify the cause of death in all but 1% of cases."

xvf22 5y ago
You wonder how many electrocutions are put down as 'cardiac arrest'. I mean yes, but not exactly natural.
- newaccount74 5y ago
  Heat stroke and dehydration also leads to cardiac arrest.

tda 5y ago

Of course you can't compare general mortality to mortality of people in the prime years of their life. I have personally seen the circumstances in which Indian men work and live in the Middle East and it is not pretty. Whatever comes out/is reported officially, the truth is probably a lot worse

djrockstar1 5y ago
I haven't been able to find death rate statistics for people aged 18-30, so I can't really compare the numbers with strictly facts. There is an article from the BBC from 2015 that claims that the number is in line with what would be expected from that age group: > The point officials are making is that there are about half a million Indian workers in Qatar, and about 250 deaths per year - and this, in their view, is not a cause for concern. In fact, Indian government data suggests that back home in India you would expect a far higher proportion to die each year - not 250, but 1,000 in any group of 500,000 25-30-year-old men. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33019838 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33019838
- wbl 5y ago
  These workers are healthier than the people who die. They are capable of working after all.
- tda 5y ago
  I also don't have any numbers, so I can't comment on or how or low these are. But I do know that the circumstances in which these men are put to work is are more akin to slave labor then anyone can and should expect. And the conditions are truly extreme as the heat and humidity in the middle east can be enormous. And whilst I can't take the heat for more than a few minute walking, I see these laborers doing 12 hour shifts of hard manual labor every day. So not surprised if more than a few have suffered from fatal heat-strokes.

hluska 5y ago

Some dude on some forum claims 15,000 deaths is fine and provides zero useful sources. We’re supposed to somehow trust your word over that of Amnesty International. What a poorly thought comment…

eru 5y ago

Thanks for running some of the numbers. Conditions for migrant workers in Qatar are certainly not pretty, but we need to be careful to stick to the facts, if we don't want to bullshit ourselves.

throwaway2037 5y ago

In the United States, during 2020: << Of the 1,008 construction worker deaths in 2020, 368 were from falls, slips, or trips, 247 were from transportation injuries, 174 were caused by exposure to harmful substances or environments, and 153 were the result of contact with an object or equipment. >> Source: https://www.constructconnect.com/blog/construction-worker-deaths-decreased-2020 https://www.constructconnect.com/blog/construction-worker-de... Google also tells me by searching << united states Construction Workers 2020 >>: << Number of Jobs, 2020: 1,514,200 >> That sounds rougly equivalent in total construction workers, but US is about 25% lower in rate of death. What is more disturbing to me is the treatment of low-skill migrant workers in Qatar. It is terrifying, and it strikes me as the very definition of a modern slavery economy.