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Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. Instead of thinking about it like a 'Orwellian State' - think of it more

Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. Instead of thinking about it like a 'Orwellian State' - think of it more like an Orwellian State that could go 'off' at anytime. Note that citizens are concerned about their prosperity - as long as growth is happening and money comes in - they are content. But they are also ultra nationalist and ultra ethnocentric to the point where it's quite easy for the CCP or leadership to simply blame 'Western Imperialism / Chauvinism' for any perceived slight against China including legitimate concerns. There will not be any protests in China about Hong Kong or forced labour. It will be about corruption, property rights, jobs etc..

einpoklum 5y ago
> Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. It only surprises people if they consider China as one of: * A harmonious socialist utopia, or * A totalitarian dystopia unfortunately, the US government and mainstream news media are trying to paint China as the latter of the two. ---- Also, irrespective of the extent of nationalism in China, western or US imperialism is a thing. Before the 20th century it was literal empires with physical conquest, and these days it is a combination of economic influence and military interventions. Of course it also serves as a convenient excuse and distraction...
- joshuajill 5y ago
  Yes the US had (has) a part in separatist movement in China and it spelled disaster. https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activists-train-as-soldiers-of-empire/ https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activ...
  - pokepim 5y ago
    Wtf, so the Uyghur movement in the US is basically right wing, pro gun, pro trump organization? Also seems to be aligning with some qanon islamophobes as well. The irony.
- jollybean 5y ago
  Imperialism is different than Nationalism and nobody is exempt from it. But China is like the West in the 1930s with the level of direct control of communications and propaganda, not allowing alternative narratives to form.
kbelder 5y ago
I have a sinking feeling that something horrible is going to hit China in, say, the next two-three decades. Not sure whether it'll be a cultural shift, economic collapse, but I think the way they're structured once it starts to falter it's going to explode in a really unpleasant way. Like exceeding Mao-level deaths. The West is messier, in a lot of ways, but I think they're more fault-tolerant.
- Ostrogodsky 5y ago
  > I have a sinking feeling that something horrible is going to hit China in, say, the next two-three decades. Welcome to the club, have a seat: https://preview.redd.it/1fq4rrk5ih921.jpg?width=800&auto=webp&s=72bfa5f372f5d7226ffb99c0461858d55fe4fa38 https://preview.redd.it/1fq4rrk5ih921.jpg?width=800&auto=web... > , but I think the way they're structured once it starts to falter it's going to explode in a really unpleasant way. Like exceeding Mao-level deaths. A wish is not an adecuate tool to forecast the future. > The West is messier, in a lot of ways, but I think they're more fault-tolerant. As shown by the COVID crisis Great, high quality, intellectually estimulating conversation in this thread.
- rg111 5y ago
  Isn't this the risk with all totalitarian, overly centralized systems?

einpoklum 5y ago

> Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. It only surprises people if they consider China as one of: * A harmonious socialist utopia, or * A totalitarian dystopia unfortunately, the US government and mainstream news media are trying to paint China as the latter of the two. ---- Also, irrespective of the extent of nationalism in China, western or US imperialism is a thing. Before the 20th century it was literal empires with physical conquest, and these days it is a combination of economic influence and military interventions. Of course it also serves as a convenient excuse and distraction...

joshuajill 5y ago
Yes the US had (has) a part in separatist movement in China and it spelled disaster. https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activists-train-as-soldiers-of-empire/ https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activ...
- pokepim 5y ago
  Wtf, so the Uyghur movement in the US is basically right wing, pro gun, pro trump organization? Also seems to be aligning with some qanon islamophobes as well. The irony.
jollybean 5y ago
Imperialism is different than Nationalism and nobody is exempt from it. But China is like the West in the 1930s with the level of direct control of communications and propaganda, not allowing alternative narratives to form.

kbelder 5y ago

I have a sinking feeling that something horrible is going to hit China in, say, the next two-three decades. Not sure whether it'll be a cultural shift, economic collapse, but I think the way they're structured once it starts to falter it's going to explode in a really unpleasant way. Like exceeding Mao-level deaths. The West is messier, in a lot of ways, but I think they're more fault-tolerant.

Ostrogodsky 5y ago
> I have a sinking feeling that something horrible is going to hit China in, say, the next two-three decades. Welcome to the club, have a seat: https://preview.redd.it/1fq4rrk5ih921.jpg?width=800&auto=webp&s=72bfa5f372f5d7226ffb99c0461858d55fe4fa38 https://preview.redd.it/1fq4rrk5ih921.jpg?width=800&auto=web... > , but I think the way they're structured once it starts to falter it's going to explode in a really unpleasant way. Like exceeding Mao-level deaths. A wish is not an adecuate tool to forecast the future. > The West is messier, in a lot of ways, but I think they're more fault-tolerant. As shown by the COVID crisis Great, high quality, intellectually estimulating conversation in this thread.
rg111 5y ago
Isn't this the risk with all totalitarian, overly centralized systems?