4 ms·

China has got a massive consumer market, an unmatched manufacturing ecosystem with zero labor disputes among other things, minerals, arguably the most stable (i

by rg111 5y ago

China has got a massive consumer market, an unmatched manufacturing ecosystem with zero labor disputes among other things, minerals, arguably the most stable (in terms of violence, unrest, strikes, etc.) regions in the world, and more. They have got anyone by their balls who remotely wants to sell anything in China. John Cena (famous wrestler, entertainer) recently apologized to Chinese people after calling Taiwan a country [0]. The companies and people who never go beyond their own selfish self-interests, will keep kowtowing to China (and KSA as well). I don't judge this. I possibly would do the same. But I am not a hypocrite. Apple used Chinese slave labor [1], Cook agreed to work with Chinese propaganda arm [2], but fired a techie for writing a satire [3]. All actors and actresses (who says nothing against China, where two or three decades ago, the whole of Hollywood was very pro-Tibet) preach freedom, self-empowerment or whatever woke thing is hot in that year, and yet choose regularly to censor and/or change content based on China's demand [4]. Intel is doing nothing new, and we will see this trend continue at least for a while now. [0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/actor-john-cena-apologizes-after-taiwan-comment-n1268526 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/actor-john-cena-apologize.... [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-china-uyghur-forced-labor-report https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-... [2]: https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/apples-tim-cook-signed-275-bln-deal-with-chinese-officials-placate-china-2021-12-07/ https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/apples-tim-... [3]: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who-canceled https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who... [4]: https://www.cnet.com/features/marvel-is-censoring-films-for-china-and-you-probably-didnt-even-notice/ https://www.cnet.com/features/marvel-is-censoring-films-for-...

jollybean 5y ago
Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. Instead of thinking about it like a 'Orwellian State' - think of it more like an Orwellian State that could go 'off' at anytime. Note that citizens are concerned about their prosperity - as long as growth is happening and money comes in - they are content. But they are also ultra nationalist and ultra ethnocentric to the point where it's quite easy for the CCP or leadership to simply blame 'Western Imperialism / Chauvinism' for any perceived slight against China including legitimate concerns. There will not be any protests in China about Hong Kong or forced labour. It will be about corruption, property rights, jobs etc..
- einpoklum 5y ago
  > Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. It only surprises people if they consider China as one of: * A harmonious socialist utopia, or * A totalitarian dystopia unfortunately, the US government and mainstream news media are trying to paint China as the latter of the two. ---- Also, irrespective of the extent of nationalism in China, western or US imperialism is a thing. Before the 20th century it was literal empires with physical conquest, and these days it is a combination of economic influence and military interventions. Of course it also serves as a convenient excuse and distraction...
  - joshuajill 5y ago
    Yes the US had (has) a part in separatist movement in China and it spelled disaster. https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activists-train-as-soldiers-of-empire/ https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activ...
    - pokepim 5y ago
      Wtf, so the Uyghur movement in the US is basically right wing, pro gun, pro trump organization? Also seems to be aligning with some qanon islamophobes as well. The irony.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    Imperialism is different than Nationalism and nobody is exempt from it. But China is like the West in the 1930s with the level of direct control of communications and propaganda, not allowing alternative narratives to form.
- kbelder 5y ago
  I have a sinking feeling that something horrible is going to hit China in, say, the next two-three decades. Not sure whether it'll be a cultural shift, economic collapse, but I think the way they're structured once it starts to falter it's going to explode in a really unpleasant way. Like exceeding Mao-level deaths. The West is messier, in a lot of ways, but I think they're more fault-tolerant.
Proven 5y ago
splitstud 5y ago
- rg111 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    Flamewar comments will get you banned here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
    - rg111 5y ago
      That was a genuinely genuine question. That was a serious question asked honestly. I am not a troll. Look at my past comment and post history.
      - dang 5y ago
        Ok, I'm sorry—I probably overinterpreted it in the context of the surrounding flamewar.
- dang 5y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly and egregiously breaking the site guidelines. Seriously not cool. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

by rg111 5y ago

jollybean 5y ago

Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. Instead of thinking about it like a 'Orwellian State' - think of it more like an Orwellian State that could go 'off' at anytime. Note that citizens are concerned about their prosperity - as long as growth is happening and money comes in - they are content. But they are also ultra nationalist and ultra ethnocentric to the point where it's quite easy for the CCP or leadership to simply blame 'Western Imperialism / Chauvinism' for any perceived slight against China including legitimate concerns. There will not be any protests in China about Hong Kong or forced labour. It will be about corruption, property rights, jobs etc..

einpoklum 5y ago
> Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. It only surprises people if they consider China as one of: * A harmonious socialist utopia, or * A totalitarian dystopia unfortunately, the US government and mainstream news media are trying to paint China as the latter of the two. ---- Also, irrespective of the extent of nationalism in China, western or US imperialism is a thing. Before the 20th century it was literal empires with physical conquest, and these days it is a combination of economic influence and military interventions. Of course it also serves as a convenient excuse and distraction...
- joshuajill 5y ago
  Yes the US had (has) a part in separatist movement in China and it spelled disaster. https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activists-train-as-soldiers-of-empire/ https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activ...
  - pokepim 5y ago
    Wtf, so the Uyghur movement in the US is basically right wing, pro gun, pro trump organization? Also seems to be aligning with some qanon islamophobes as well. The irony.
- jollybean 5y ago
  Imperialism is different than Nationalism and nobody is exempt from it. But China is like the West in the 1930s with the level of direct control of communications and propaganda, not allowing alternative narratives to form.
kbelder 5y ago
I have a sinking feeling that something horrible is going to hit China in, say, the next two-three decades. Not sure whether it'll be a cultural shift, economic collapse, but I think the way they're structured once it starts to falter it's going to explode in a really unpleasant way. Like exceeding Mao-level deaths. The West is messier, in a lot of ways, but I think they're more fault-tolerant.

Proven 5y ago

splitstud 5y ago

rg111 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  Flamewar comments will get you banned here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
  - rg111 5y ago
    That was a genuinely genuine question. That was a serious question asked honestly. I am not a troll. Look at my past comment and post history.
    - dang 5y ago
      Ok, I'm sorry—I probably overinterpreted it in the context of the surrounding flamewar.
dang 5y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly and egregiously breaking the site guidelines. Seriously not cool. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.