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The implication is really strong here that they'll coerce you, and that's okay. I hope they don't, and it's not okay if they do. You should be able to invoke th

The implication is really strong here that they'll coerce you, and that's okay. I hope they don't, and it's not okay if they do. You should be able to invoke the 5th and be silent on any matter, including producing information required to decrypt a private key. Of course, this happened in Japan, it sounds like, and perhaps they have different rules. If so, that sucks and they should change them because torture is morally wrong.

brigandish 5y ago
Habeas corpus is not a thing in Japan, they basically hold you until you confess. There's also no bail. I like how the lawyer in this interview doesn't seem impressed by the system he has to work in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZLGqL1FMo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZLGqL1FMo
- bena 5y ago
  From what I understand, going to trial in Japan is mostly determining your sentence, guilt is the default assumption. Getting a not guilty verdict is incredibly rare.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    Japanese legal system is a bit like a car with missing trim pieces that were to be installed before the sale. Like you are supposed to be able to place your hands on the middle of the dashboard in rough roads, but in this car you have to carefully hold at edges, gloved. There seems to be law texts and systems which intent or behavior or actions to be taken is only clear with the knowledge of legal systems in other nations.
- JetAlone 5y ago
  The video reminds me that sometimes I feel tempted to add something to the graffiti in places in Shibuya, or Akiba where it's already teeming. Life here in offices day in and day out is extremely boring, and any given change you might want to make to your life whether you're a local or a foreigner has a hundred and eight barriers. I tell myself the excitement isn't worth the risk, but that's backwards; risk is part of the excitement.
yborg 5y ago
Stealing is kind of morally wrong as well. And if this guy was innocent, it would have been hard for them to get the private key out of him, since he wouldn't have known it.
kingcharles 5y ago
The 5th Amendment only works if law enforcement honor it. In my case I wasn't given a call to a lawyer and they refused to honor my requests to not speak, repeatedly. Then they made threats against my wife and I told them to write whatever they wanted and I would sign it. [counter-intuitively you have to tell law enforcement you don't want to speak, you cannot just remain silent to invoke your right to silence: "The Court held that because Thompkins did not say he wished to remain silent or did not wish to speak to the officers, he had not invoked the right to remain silent." https://www.tdcorg.com/article/invoking-right-to-silence-must-be-unambiguous/ https://www.tdcorg.com/article/invoking-right-to-silence-mus... ]
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Make sure you word it exactly right, too. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02... > [When] a suspect in an interrogation told detectives to “just give me a lawyer dog,” the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled that the suspect was, in fact, asking for a “lawyer dog,” and not invoking his constitutional right to counsel.
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    I feel like they should have at least given him a phone call to try to find a lawyer dog. I don't know how many dogs have passed the bar, but in terms of my dog, if you find the right treats she'll do any trick you can think of, and several you can't. The other day someone gave me some organic chewy treats and I showed those to her and she actually filled out my 1099 Form for me and found several deductions I hadn't previously seen.
user-the-name 5y ago
If you rob a bank and hide the money, and then get caught, you will be "coerced" to tell the police where you hid the money. The "coercion" will be "your willingness to cooperate will be taken into account at your sentencing". This is both normal and good. Suggesting otherwise would be ridiculous.

brigandish 5y ago

Habeas corpus is not a thing in Japan, they basically hold you until you confess. There's also no bail. I like how the lawyer in this interview doesn't seem impressed by the system he has to work in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZLGqL1FMo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZLGqL1FMo

bena 5y ago
From what I understand, going to trial in Japan is mostly determining your sentence, guilt is the default assumption. Getting a not guilty verdict is incredibly rare.
- numpad0 5y ago
  Japanese legal system is a bit like a car with missing trim pieces that were to be installed before the sale. Like you are supposed to be able to place your hands on the middle of the dashboard in rough roads, but in this car you have to carefully hold at edges, gloved. There seems to be law texts and systems which intent or behavior or actions to be taken is only clear with the knowledge of legal systems in other nations.
JetAlone 5y ago
The video reminds me that sometimes I feel tempted to add something to the graffiti in places in Shibuya, or Akiba where it's already teeming. Life here in offices day in and day out is extremely boring, and any given change you might want to make to your life whether you're a local or a foreigner has a hundred and eight barriers. I tell myself the excitement isn't worth the risk, but that's backwards; risk is part of the excitement.

yborg 5y ago

Stealing is kind of morally wrong as well. And if this guy was innocent, it would have been hard for them to get the private key out of him, since he wouldn't have known it.

kingcharles 5y ago

The 5th Amendment only works if law enforcement honor it. In my case I wasn't given a call to a lawyer and they refused to honor my requests to not speak, repeatedly. Then they made threats against my wife and I told them to write whatever they wanted and I would sign it. [counter-intuitively you have to tell law enforcement you don't want to speak, you cannot just remain silent to invoke your right to silence: "The Court held that because Thompkins did not say he wished to remain silent or did not wish to speak to the officers, he had not invoked the right to remain silent." https://www.tdcorg.com/article/invoking-right-to-silence-must-be-unambiguous/ https://www.tdcorg.com/article/invoking-right-to-silence-mus... ]

ceejayoz 5y ago
Make sure you word it exactly right, too. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02... > [When] a suspect in an interrogation told detectives to “just give me a lawyer dog,” the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled that the suspect was, in fact, asking for a “lawyer dog,” and not invoking his constitutional right to counsel.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  I feel like they should have at least given him a phone call to try to find a lawyer dog. I don't know how many dogs have passed the bar, but in terms of my dog, if you find the right treats she'll do any trick you can think of, and several you can't. The other day someone gave me some organic chewy treats and I showed those to her and she actually filled out my 1099 Form for me and found several deductions I hadn't previously seen.

user-the-name 5y ago

If you rob a bank and hide the money, and then get caught, you will be "coerced" to tell the police where you hid the money. The "coercion" will be "your willingness to cooperate will be taken into account at your sentencing". This is both normal and good. Suggesting otherwise would be ridiculous.