4 ms·

Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Eit

Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there.

thaumasiotes 5y ago
> Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there. Correct. > Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Nope. This one is ∅ + u. You can listen to the name of Wuhan here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82
- CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
  Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? Maybe it's not as clear as in the English word west, but you can't deny it's there no? Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you?
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? No? > Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? You could make that argument. But 武 never transitions out of it. That transition is how you get a glide (or semivowel) as opposed to a vowel. 我 is /wo/, with a brief /w/. 武 is /u/, and that vowel persists through the entire syllable. If you wanted to call it /w/ instead of /u/, you'd have a syllable with an onset and no rime, and your /w/ would last much too long to be called a semivowel. > Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you? I can't really speak to this, but I'll assume by 喔 you mean something that is like 窝 without the w- onset. Something like 哦? They don't sound the same. This actually raises an interesting question... > I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there Am I right that you're a native Mandarin speaker? Mandarin doesn't distinguish between /wu/ and /u/, or at least no minimal pair exists that would prove the distinction is drawn. (Granted, the sequence /wu/ is not at all common in English, but we do have a minimal pair -- woo / ooh -- as long as you're willing to accept "ooh" as a word.) The lack of a distinction in Mandarin leaves the judgment of a Mandarin speaker open to question. seanmcdirmid mentioned 服务 - do you also clearly hear a W sound there?
    - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
      > Am I right that you're a native Mandarin speaker? No I'm not. Are you? I'm open to the idea that I'm mislead by pinyin, but I really cannot unhear the w sound there. How do you pronounce Wuhan? Do you start with you lips closed or can you do it with your mouth open? > seanmcdirmid mentioned 服务 - do you also clearly hear a W sound there? Not really, but syllables changing depending on what comes before (or after them) is fairly normal.
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > How do you pronounce Wuhan? Do you start with you lips closed or can you do it with your mouth open? I don't understand this question. The only sounds you can make by closing your lips are P, B, and M.
        CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
        Ok, not completely closed, but more closed than u or any other vowel.

Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there. Correct. > Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Nope. This one is ∅ + u. You can listen to the name of Wuhan here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82

CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? Maybe it's not as clear as in the English word west, but you can't deny it's there no? Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you?
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? No? > Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? You could make that argument. But 武 never transitions out of it. That transition is how you get a glide (or semivowel) as opposed to a vowel. 我 is /wo/, with a brief /w/. 武 is /u/, and that vowel persists through the entire syllable. If you wanted to call it /w/ instead of /u/, you'd have a syllable with an onset and no rime, and your /w/ would last much too long to be called a semivowel. > Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you? I can't really speak to this, but I'll assume by 喔 you mean something that is like 窝 without the w- onset. Something like 哦? They don't sound the same. This actually raises an interesting question... > I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there Am I right that you're a native Mandarin speaker? Mandarin doesn't distinguish between /wu/ and /u/, or at least no minimal pair exists that would prove the distinction is drawn. (Granted, the sequence /wu/ is not at all common in English, but we do have a minimal pair -- woo / ooh -- as long as you're willing to accept "ooh" as a word.) The lack of a distinction in Mandarin leaves the judgment of a Mandarin speaker open to question. seanmcdirmid mentioned 服务 - do you also clearly hear a W sound there?
  - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
    > Am I right that you're a native Mandarin speaker? No I'm not. Are you? I'm open to the idea that I'm mislead by pinyin, but I really cannot unhear the w sound there. How do you pronounce Wuhan? Do you start with you lips closed or can you do it with your mouth open? > seanmcdirmid mentioned 服务 - do you also clearly hear a W sound there? Not really, but syllables changing depending on what comes before (or after them) is fairly normal.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > How do you pronounce Wuhan? Do you start with you lips closed or can you do it with your mouth open? I don't understand this question. The only sounds you can make by closing your lips are P, B, and M.
      - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
        Ok, not completely closed, but more closed than u or any other vowel.