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> but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them I always found it amusing how the "patriots" worshipping the military are

by jhgb 5y ago

> but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them I always found it amusing how the "patriots" worshipping the military are pretty much the same people who hate any kind of government intervention in their lives.

ashtonkem 5y ago
I’m reminded of the common quip that the US military is the largest socialist organization in the United States.
- rjbwork 5y ago
  Not really socialist. It's just a giant imperial jobs program that also provides cover for channeling tax dollars into the coffers of the donor class.
- MandieD 5y ago
  A socialist meritocracy.
- _ktx2 5y ago
  This is actually one of the things I like to highlight to folks that talk a little-too-gleefully about socialism. The military implements socialism for convenience and cost effectiveness. The result is atrocious. This was in Camp Lejeune, NC. I almost never got adequate medical care. The medical system was strange and winding. There were all kinds of approvals needed for very simple things. The food standards were absolutely terrible. I don't know if it was an actual thing, but I was told there was a threshold for the number of roaches that could be present on food dispensing equipment before they'd throw the food out. The housing was disgusting. I lived in a barracks built in 1945 with inadequate parking, sewage that once popped a goldfish into a toilet bowl, water that occasionally would turn totally brown or yellow and is now known to have made people sick. There was a door to the interior of the building where ducts, pipes, and internet were run that all contained asbestos and asbestos warnings. The worst part, you had no option to say, "Give me the dollar amount you spend on this so I can find my own options" but they'll gladly tell you what they spent at an inflated rate. These are just the ones off the top of my head.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    The results you describe sound very much like pre-1989 Czechoslovakia to me. I guess they actually did achieve socialism! :)
    - _ktx2 5y ago
      They do achieve socialism, without a doubt.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    I have heard similar stories from all members of my family that served in the military. Their experiences with healthcare in the military have essentially guaranteed they will never get behind a single-payer health-care system.
    - kodah 5y ago
      I think it's possible. I existed in that system and am at times still bound to it when dealing with the VA. I think my attitude is more, "go fix the system you already have to experiment with."
  - lapetitejort 5y ago
    On the flip side, the military also has Bethesda Naval Hospital and Walter Reed Medical Center (both who regularly treat the President, such as when Trump had covid), life insurance, TSGLI, G.I. Bill (free plus monthly stipend), lifetime disability, Tricare, VA home loans, among others. I know people who lived in brand new barracks with keycards. People who lived in air conditioned pods in the middle of the desert with four square meals a day. Sounds like you had a bad experience and things could certainly improve. The military won't always offer a stellar experience, and Marines are often rough with their surroundings. Just ask people deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    Your experiences are meaningful to you, but they don't indicate anything significant about socialism. Socialism is not the goal of USA military. The point of the exercise is to transfer resources from citizens to armaments manufacturers. Who lives or dies, how they're treated in the meantime, the stories we tell about the whole mess, all this is random noise about which the generals DGAF. If we want to know about socialism, we'll observe Scandinavia or anywhere else where it actually happens. We don't need the tortured analogies of frustrated NCOs. I'm not a socialist, BTW.
int_19h 5y ago
I find it more amusing that the same people also worship the police ("thin blue line" etc), despite the fact that cops are literally the very people who implement day-to-day government intervention in their lives. It gets even weirder when the same person also rants about the federal (FBI, BATFE, DEA etc) "jack-booted thugs". This is incredibly common in the right-wing gun owner community.

by jhgb 5y ago

ashtonkem 5y ago

I’m reminded of the common quip that the US military is the largest socialist organization in the United States.

rjbwork 5y ago
Not really socialist. It's just a giant imperial jobs program that also provides cover for channeling tax dollars into the coffers of the donor class.
MandieD 5y ago
A socialist meritocracy.
_ktx2 5y ago
This is actually one of the things I like to highlight to folks that talk a little-too-gleefully about socialism. The military implements socialism for convenience and cost effectiveness. The result is atrocious. This was in Camp Lejeune, NC. I almost never got adequate medical care. The medical system was strange and winding. There were all kinds of approvals needed for very simple things. The food standards were absolutely terrible. I don't know if it was an actual thing, but I was told there was a threshold for the number of roaches that could be present on food dispensing equipment before they'd throw the food out. The housing was disgusting. I lived in a barracks built in 1945 with inadequate parking, sewage that once popped a goldfish into a toilet bowl, water that occasionally would turn totally brown or yellow and is now known to have made people sick. There was a door to the interior of the building where ducts, pipes, and internet were run that all contained asbestos and asbestos warnings. The worst part, you had no option to say, "Give me the dollar amount you spend on this so I can find my own options" but they'll gladly tell you what they spent at an inflated rate. These are just the ones off the top of my head.
- jhgb 5y ago
  The results you describe sound very much like pre-1989 Czechoslovakia to me. I guess they actually did achieve socialism! :)
  - _ktx2 5y ago
    They do achieve socialism, without a doubt.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  I have heard similar stories from all members of my family that served in the military. Their experiences with healthcare in the military have essentially guaranteed they will never get behind a single-payer health-care system.
  - kodah 5y ago
    I think it's possible. I existed in that system and am at times still bound to it when dealing with the VA. I think my attitude is more, "go fix the system you already have to experiment with."
- lapetitejort 5y ago
  On the flip side, the military also has Bethesda Naval Hospital and Walter Reed Medical Center (both who regularly treat the President, such as when Trump had covid), life insurance, TSGLI, G.I. Bill (free plus monthly stipend), lifetime disability, Tricare, VA home loans, among others. I know people who lived in brand new barracks with keycards. People who lived in air conditioned pods in the middle of the desert with four square meals a day. Sounds like you had a bad experience and things could certainly improve. The military won't always offer a stellar experience, and Marines are often rough with their surroundings. Just ask people deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  Your experiences are meaningful to you, but they don't indicate anything significant about socialism. Socialism is not the goal of USA military. The point of the exercise is to transfer resources from citizens to armaments manufacturers. Who lives or dies, how they're treated in the meantime, the stories we tell about the whole mess, all this is random noise about which the generals DGAF. If we want to know about socialism, we'll observe Scandinavia or anywhere else where it actually happens. We don't need the tortured analogies of frustrated NCOs. I'm not a socialist, BTW.

int_19h 5y ago

I find it more amusing that the same people also worship the police ("thin blue line" etc), despite the fact that cops are literally the very people who implement day-to-day government intervention in their lives. It gets even weirder when the same person also rants about the federal (FBI, BATFE, DEA etc) "jack-booted thugs". This is incredibly common in the right-wing gun owner community.