4 ms·

Federal government has limited purview of its citizens, but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them. As it derives its p

Federal government has limited purview of its citizens, but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them. As it derives its power from the delegates of the states, it has to appease them even if it has the power to regulate all facets of life. So there isn't a law for all people as not enough delegates can stomach that, but for the military its easy.

jhgb 5y ago
> but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them I always found it amusing how the "patriots" worshipping the military are pretty much the same people who hate any kind of government intervention in their lives.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I’m reminded of the common quip that the US military is the largest socialist organization in the United States.
  - rjbwork 5y ago
    Not really socialist. It's just a giant imperial jobs program that also provides cover for channeling tax dollars into the coffers of the donor class.
  - MandieD 5y ago
    A socialist meritocracy.
  - _ktx2 5y ago
    This is actually one of the things I like to highlight to folks that talk a little-too-gleefully about socialism. The military implements socialism for convenience and cost effectiveness. The result is atrocious. This was in Camp Lejeune, NC. I almost never got adequate medical care. The medical system was strange and winding. There were all kinds of approvals needed for very simple things. The food standards were absolutely terrible. I don't know if it was an actual thing, but I was told there was a threshold for the number of roaches that could be present on food dispensing equipment before they'd throw the food out. The housing was disgusting. I lived in a barracks built in 1945 with inadequate parking, sewage that once popped a goldfish into a toilet bowl, water that occasionally would turn totally brown or yellow and is now known to have made people sick. There was a door to the interior of the building where ducts, pipes, and internet were run that all contained asbestos and asbestos warnings. The worst part, you had no option to say, "Give me the dollar amount you spend on this so I can find my own options" but they'll gladly tell you what they spent at an inflated rate. These are just the ones off the top of my head.
    - jhgb 5y ago
      The results you describe sound very much like pre-1989 Czechoslovakia to me. I guess they actually did achieve socialism! :)
      - _ktx2 5y ago
        They do achieve socialism, without a doubt.
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      I have heard similar stories from all members of my family that served in the military. Their experiences with healthcare in the military have essentially guaranteed they will never get behind a single-payer health-care system.
      - kodah 5y ago
        I think it's possible. I existed in that system and am at times still bound to it when dealing with the VA. I think my attitude is more, "go fix the system you already have to experiment with."
    - lapetitejort 5y ago
      On the flip side, the military also has Bethesda Naval Hospital and Walter Reed Medical Center (both who regularly treat the President, such as when Trump had covid), life insurance, TSGLI, G.I. Bill (free plus monthly stipend), lifetime disability, Tricare, VA home loans, among others. I know people who lived in brand new barracks with keycards. People who lived in air conditioned pods in the middle of the desert with four square meals a day. Sounds like you had a bad experience and things could certainly improve. The military won't always offer a stellar experience, and Marines are often rough with their surroundings. Just ask people deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.
    - jessaustin 5y ago
      Your experiences are meaningful to you, but they don't indicate anything significant about socialism. Socialism is not the goal of USA military. The point of the exercise is to transfer resources from citizens to armaments manufacturers. Who lives or dies, how they're treated in the meantime, the stories we tell about the whole mess, all this is random noise about which the generals DGAF. If we want to know about socialism, we'll observe Scandinavia or anywhere else where it actually happens. We don't need the tortured analogies of frustrated NCOs. I'm not a socialist, BTW.
- int_19h 5y ago
  I find it more amusing that the same people also worship the police ("thin blue line" etc), despite the fact that cops are literally the very people who implement day-to-day government intervention in their lives. It gets even weirder when the same person also rants about the federal (FBI, BATFE, DEA etc) "jack-booted thugs". This is incredibly common in the right-wing gun owner community.
kodah 5y ago
> Federal government has limited purview of its citizens, but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them. Congress passes these protections, the military just lobbies for them internally because they cause problems with the operations of the military. Some things I saw a lot: - A Private, PFC, or Lance Corporal who lives in the barracks (therefore has the most straight-forward pay with little extra incentives) [1] gets approved for a car loan on a used car at 20%+ APR or credit cards which revolve into 20%+ APR with caps well above their means. When they can't pay they will attempt to contact the chain of command and pressure the military into intervening. Eventually they'll settle, the car or items get returned, the Marine gets busted down, and then they go on to do the same thing all over again with the same car. - Lending services know that military are fixed income and that they are also low income, and will therefore shop predatory rates to them as a means of "refinancing". Really, it's debt consolidation because military members also have a high rate of divorce and debt. - Banks will attempt to repossess homes while military members are on deployment and cannot access internet or financial services. Also happens to reservists who are without their primary income and are deployed. (ServiceMembers Civil Relief Act) [2] Military just face some very unique situations, but a lot of it derives from the fact that we pay enlisted personnel (the greatest in number) dirt for their trade. [1]: Note, these are pre-tax: https://militarybenefits.info/2021-military-pay-charts/ https://militarybenefits.info/2021-military-pay-charts/ [2]: https://www.texasbar.com/flashdrive/materials/military_law/MilitaryLaw_Odom_Update_FinalArticle.pdf https://www.texasbar.com/flashdrive/materials/military_law/M...
- RicoElectrico 5y ago
  > When they can't pay they will attempt to contact the chain of command and pressure the military into intervening What logic does this follow? Like, why would I ask my employer to intervene if I have taken some loan with bad conditions?
  - kodah 5y ago
    I worded that poorly, sorry. Businesses will contact the troops chain of command. The military exercises a lot influence over troops, they can bust you down or remove your security clearance. They can also push you into payment plans and reflect these situations in your performance reviews. The military, for all intents and purposes, acts as much more than just a simple employer and lending services (among other businesses and people) exploit that.

jhgb 5y ago

> but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them I always found it amusing how the "patriots" worshipping the military are pretty much the same people who hate any kind of government intervention in their lives.

ashtonkem 5y ago
I’m reminded of the common quip that the US military is the largest socialist organization in the United States.
- rjbwork 5y ago
  Not really socialist. It's just a giant imperial jobs program that also provides cover for channeling tax dollars into the coffers of the donor class.
- MandieD 5y ago
  A socialist meritocracy.
- _ktx2 5y ago
  This is actually one of the things I like to highlight to folks that talk a little-too-gleefully about socialism. The military implements socialism for convenience and cost effectiveness. The result is atrocious. This was in Camp Lejeune, NC. I almost never got adequate medical care. The medical system was strange and winding. There were all kinds of approvals needed for very simple things. The food standards were absolutely terrible. I don't know if it was an actual thing, but I was told there was a threshold for the number of roaches that could be present on food dispensing equipment before they'd throw the food out. The housing was disgusting. I lived in a barracks built in 1945 with inadequate parking, sewage that once popped a goldfish into a toilet bowl, water that occasionally would turn totally brown or yellow and is now known to have made people sick. There was a door to the interior of the building where ducts, pipes, and internet were run that all contained asbestos and asbestos warnings. The worst part, you had no option to say, "Give me the dollar amount you spend on this so I can find my own options" but they'll gladly tell you what they spent at an inflated rate. These are just the ones off the top of my head.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    The results you describe sound very much like pre-1989 Czechoslovakia to me. I guess they actually did achieve socialism! :)
    - _ktx2 5y ago
      They do achieve socialism, without a doubt.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    I have heard similar stories from all members of my family that served in the military. Their experiences with healthcare in the military have essentially guaranteed they will never get behind a single-payer health-care system.
    - kodah 5y ago
      I think it's possible. I existed in that system and am at times still bound to it when dealing with the VA. I think my attitude is more, "go fix the system you already have to experiment with."
  - lapetitejort 5y ago
    On the flip side, the military also has Bethesda Naval Hospital and Walter Reed Medical Center (both who regularly treat the President, such as when Trump had covid), life insurance, TSGLI, G.I. Bill (free plus monthly stipend), lifetime disability, Tricare, VA home loans, among others. I know people who lived in brand new barracks with keycards. People who lived in air conditioned pods in the middle of the desert with four square meals a day. Sounds like you had a bad experience and things could certainly improve. The military won't always offer a stellar experience, and Marines are often rough with their surroundings. Just ask people deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    Your experiences are meaningful to you, but they don't indicate anything significant about socialism. Socialism is not the goal of USA military. The point of the exercise is to transfer resources from citizens to armaments manufacturers. Who lives or dies, how they're treated in the meantime, the stories we tell about the whole mess, all this is random noise about which the generals DGAF. If we want to know about socialism, we'll observe Scandinavia or anywhere else where it actually happens. We don't need the tortured analogies of frustrated NCOs. I'm not a socialist, BTW.
int_19h 5y ago
I find it more amusing that the same people also worship the police ("thin blue line" etc), despite the fact that cops are literally the very people who implement day-to-day government intervention in their lives. It gets even weirder when the same person also rants about the federal (FBI, BATFE, DEA etc) "jack-booted thugs". This is incredibly common in the right-wing gun owner community.

kodah 5y ago

> Federal government has limited purview of its citizens, but can more easily regulate the people in the military and interactions with them. Congress passes these protections, the military just lobbies for them internally because they cause problems with the operations of the military. Some things I saw a lot: - A Private, PFC, or Lance Corporal who lives in the barracks (therefore has the most straight-forward pay with little extra incentives) [1] gets approved for a car loan on a used car at 20%+ APR or credit cards which revolve into 20%+ APR with caps well above their means. When they can't pay they will attempt to contact the chain of command and pressure the military into intervening. Eventually they'll settle, the car or items get returned, the Marine gets busted down, and then they go on to do the same thing all over again with the same car. - Lending services know that military are fixed income and that they are also low income, and will therefore shop predatory rates to them as a means of "refinancing". Really, it's debt consolidation because military members also have a high rate of divorce and debt. - Banks will attempt to repossess homes while military members are on deployment and cannot access internet or financial services. Also happens to reservists who are without their primary income and are deployed. (ServiceMembers Civil Relief Act) [2] Military just face some very unique situations, but a lot of it derives from the fact that we pay enlisted personnel (the greatest in number) dirt for their trade. [1]: Note, these are pre-tax: https://militarybenefits.info/2021-military-pay-charts/ https://militarybenefits.info/2021-military-pay-charts/ [2]: https://www.texasbar.com/flashdrive/materials/military_law/MilitaryLaw_Odom_Update_FinalArticle.pdf https://www.texasbar.com/flashdrive/materials/military_law/M...

RicoElectrico 5y ago
> When they can't pay they will attempt to contact the chain of command and pressure the military into intervening What logic does this follow? Like, why would I ask my employer to intervene if I have taken some loan with bad conditions?
- kodah 5y ago
  I worded that poorly, sorry. Businesses will contact the troops chain of command. The military exercises a lot influence over troops, they can bust you down or remove your security clearance. They can also push you into payment plans and reflect these situations in your performance reviews. The military, for all intents and purposes, acts as much more than just a simple employer and lending services (among other businesses and people) exploit that.