7 ms·

> However, on December 1, following an investigation in collaboration with Japanese law enforcement authorities, the FBI seized the 3879.16242937 BTC in Ishii's

> However, on December 1, following an investigation in collaboration with Japanese law enforcement authorities, the FBI seized the 3879.16242937 BTC in Ishii's wallet after obtaining the private key, which made it possible to transfer all the bitcoins to the FBI's bitcoin wallet. But the really big question (not addressed in the article) is this: How did the FBI get the private key(s) for the wallet?

rhtgrg 5y ago
Probably like this [0] but with less violence and more credible threats post custody. [0] https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- pxmpxm 5y ago
  Came to post the same; $5 wrench method never fails
- user-the-name 5y ago
  The "threat" is that your cooperation will be taken into account at sentencing.
ceejayoz 5y ago
“Wanna go to jail forever, or just a few years? Your choice.” Tends to be effective. The entire US justice system relies on this dynamic. It cannot handle even a couple of percent of cases making it to trial.
- suifbwish 5y ago
  That $3 hammer is pretty effective for breaking encryption
- nyolfen 5y ago
  they may have threatened extradition, even if the jp authorities wouldn’t have followed through it would be a useful tactic
- anfilt 5y ago
  Basically rubber hose crypto analysis, but is there any evidence of this? The article makes no mention of it. Like the could have also seized is electronic devices and just found a copy of the key somewhere.
  - DennisP 5y ago
    Or they got a search warrant and found his 24 words, in his house or safe deposit box. Or they surveilled him and found where he hid them. It's pretty hard to keep your keys safe from an attacker able to do that sort of thing, without adding serious risk of accidental loss.
    - paulpauper 5y ago
      yeah he was probably sloppy
  - paulpauper 5y ago
    as usual, key (no pun indented) details intentionally left out
  - PKop 5y ago
    >The article makes no mention of it And I would bet the FBI is not going to say publicly. It could be beneficial to the US Government to have people believe they have the capability to just steal private keys, even if in fact they just negotiated for it.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Both are plausible avenues, sure. Ultimately, the point is “once law enforcement has you and your devices in their hands, it’s probably all over”.
    - javajosh 5y ago
      The implication is really strong here that they'll coerce you, and that's okay. I hope they don't, and it's not okay if they do. You should be able to invoke the 5th and be silent on any matter, including producing information required to decrypt a private key. Of course, this happened in Japan, it sounds like, and perhaps they have different rules. If so, that sucks and they should change them because torture is morally wrong.
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  But, wasn't he arrested in Japan?
- andrewxdiamond 5y ago
  https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- loeg 5y ago
  The article suggests they got the private key (Dec 1) before moving on him (today), although I suppose it’s possible that they got him to talk first. But if it’s that, why even mention private keys?
  - Consultant32452 5y ago
    Oh man, can you imagine thinking you successfully stole $154M and then it just vanishes from your bitcoin wallet?
  - desdiv 5y ago
    >Tokyo's Metropolitan Police Department arrested the 32-year-old Ishii the same day and criminally charged him on suspicion of obtaining $154 million dollars following fraudulent money transfers from mid-May. The private key seizure and the arrest happened on the same day (Dec 1).
- rasz 5y ago
  'I want to talk to my $10M/year lawyer'
- unixhero 5y ago
  Aaahh the old baseball bat method of cryptography brute force.
vmception 5y ago
Its not the first time they’ve been vague about this. Their wording actually in other cases makes it seem like they have already derived the private keys and move to seize it once establishing any US nexus. They’ll say things like “we noticed we had that private key” and ask a judge for forfeiture, which is surprisingly professional restraint but curious. Should be investigated further. People should use multisig in something brazen and see if it still happens. Taproot helps make multisig use indistinguishable from non-multisig.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

rhtgrg 5y ago

Probably like this [0] but with less violence and more credible threats post custody. [0] https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/

pxmpxm 5y ago
Came to post the same; $5 wrench method never fails
user-the-name 5y ago
The "threat" is that your cooperation will be taken into account at sentencing.

ceejayoz 5y ago

“Wanna go to jail forever, or just a few years? Your choice.” Tends to be effective. The entire US justice system relies on this dynamic. It cannot handle even a couple of percent of cases making it to trial.

suifbwish 5y ago
That $3 hammer is pretty effective for breaking encryption
nyolfen 5y ago
they may have threatened extradition, even if the jp authorities wouldn’t have followed through it would be a useful tactic
anfilt 5y ago
Basically rubber hose crypto analysis, but is there any evidence of this? The article makes no mention of it. Like the could have also seized is electronic devices and just found a copy of the key somewhere.
- DennisP 5y ago
  Or they got a search warrant and found his 24 words, in his house or safe deposit box. Or they surveilled him and found where he hid them. It's pretty hard to keep your keys safe from an attacker able to do that sort of thing, without adding serious risk of accidental loss.
  - paulpauper 5y ago
    yeah he was probably sloppy
- paulpauper 5y ago
  as usual, key (no pun indented) details intentionally left out
- PKop 5y ago
  >The article makes no mention of it And I would bet the FBI is not going to say publicly. It could be beneficial to the US Government to have people believe they have the capability to just steal private keys, even if in fact they just negotiated for it.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Both are plausible avenues, sure. Ultimately, the point is “once law enforcement has you and your devices in their hands, it’s probably all over”.
  - javajosh 5y ago
    The implication is really strong here that they'll coerce you, and that's okay. I hope they don't, and it's not okay if they do. You should be able to invoke the 5th and be silent on any matter, including producing information required to decrypt a private key. Of course, this happened in Japan, it sounds like, and perhaps they have different rules. If so, that sucks and they should change them because torture is morally wrong.
8ytecoder 5y ago
But, wasn't he arrested in Japan?
andrewxdiamond 5y ago
https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
loeg 5y ago
The article suggests they got the private key (Dec 1) before moving on him (today), although I suppose it’s possible that they got him to talk first. But if it’s that, why even mention private keys?
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  Oh man, can you imagine thinking you successfully stole $154M and then it just vanishes from your bitcoin wallet?
- desdiv 5y ago
  >Tokyo's Metropolitan Police Department arrested the 32-year-old Ishii the same day and criminally charged him on suspicion of obtaining $154 million dollars following fraudulent money transfers from mid-May. The private key seizure and the arrest happened on the same day (Dec 1).
rasz 5y ago
'I want to talk to my $10M/year lawyer'
unixhero 5y ago
Aaahh the old baseball bat method of cryptography brute force.

vmception 5y ago

Its not the first time they’ve been vague about this. Their wording actually in other cases makes it seem like they have already derived the private keys and move to seize it once establishing any US nexus. They’ll say things like “we noticed we had that private key” and ask a judge for forfeiture, which is surprisingly professional restraint but curious. Should be investigated further. People should use multisig in something brazen and see if it still happens. Taproot helps make multisig use indistinguishable from non-multisig.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]