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I'm a Canadian, but I often watch American rallies on the news. I always laugh when some American protestors say they're being oppressed/the current regime is

by bgroat 5y ago

I'm a Canadian, but I often watch American rallies on the news. I always laugh when some American protestors say they're being oppressed/the current regime is fascistic. I mean, you're gathered, in a crowd, often armed, with your message being broadcast, with a reasonable expectation (I know, I know, not always - especially for certain demographics) of going home/surviving. I'm not sure they really understand what fascism is EDIT: I'm completely supportive of gathering/protesting. But be clear that you're protesting particular, discrete issues. And probably not fascism in the general sense.

seibelj 5y ago
I'm happy when people are motivated to protest, regardless of the issue or political affiliation. Better than just taking it on the chin, over and over, slowly boiling as politicians make things worse.
- bgroat 5y ago
  I'm going to edit my parent comment for more context, because I realize my initial comment was unclear
nitrogen 5y ago
The existence of worse problems does not make other problems go away. It's reasonable and desirable to strive for a better future no matter how good the present is.
- bgroat 5y ago
  Upvoting this because I agree with you. Edited the parent comment to provide some more context
- dominotw 5y ago
  Wouldn't that imply people are forever oppressed because things can be better.
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    If your line of work is "being one of those who can properly identify and point out oppression," and then "sell training/books/seminars/etc to make people feel like they're doing something to resolve it," it would be bad for business to actually change the state of things. Greer did some writing on this state of things, and termed it "The Rescue Game" [0]. It's notably static, in that the people who claim the high position in the game really don't want to be removed from that position. [0]: https://www.resilience.org/stories/2016-04-14/american-narratives-the-rescue-game/ https://www.resilience.org/stories/2016-04-14/american-narra...
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    No because if the law is applied equally to all people regardless of background by definition the reason to protest does not exist anymore. Think about it, this was the whole point of BLM: Please stop shooting/killing/maiming unarmed Black people at a disproportionally higher rate than members of other groups.
  - adamisom 5y ago
    Welcome to the news cycle! The world improves, but one thing remains constant (stubbornly disconnected from whether or not, and how much, things are improving): amount of outrage
- throw10920 5y ago
  The issue is that calling America a "fascistic regime" is flat-out wrong (at this point in time). It's just completely false - it doesn't matter that there are some issues, because it's crystal-clear to anyone who has read a few history books (or lived under an actual fascist regime, as one of my relatives has) that America ain't it.
icelancer 5y ago
You know that relative freedom exists when people are free to protest and discuss openly incredibly stupid ideas. It's a feature, not bug.
nebula8804 5y ago
The problem is that little by little these freedoms are being chipped away so it requires constant fighting and pushing back in an extreme fashion to hopefully slow it down. For example: You want to protest Israel? Great but now in 35 states you cannot accept any government jobs. [1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#Anti-BDS_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#Anti-BDS_laws_in... Another example: NSA is slurping up every last detail of Americans complete being. That we know thanks to snowden. If we keep going down this slope, what is to prevent them from using this data on you? Already we saw examples of them targeting Trump cabinet officials. If a real hard left candidate makes it anywhere close to the white house, you can be sure any skeletons will come out thanks to this data trove. And finally an example closer to protesting: How is a country not creeping closer to fascism if they are literally kidnapping protesters and putting them in unmarked vans? [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XomXxmJTrLI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XomXxmJTrLI So yeah I guess you can say that America is a lot more polite about oppressing people. They don't typically pull their citizens into a back alley and shoot them. These days that is less effective than their current strategy. They accomplish the oppression in smarter more tangible ways through the ease of passing restrictive laws in addition to making trouble and asking forgiveness later(this is what happened with the unmarked van story although I don't know how the investigation turned out).
- throw10920 5y ago
  > NSA is slurping up every last detail of Americans complete being. That we know thanks to snowden. If you've actually read the Snowden papers, you'd know that they don't say anything remotely resembling this.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    Well the report is circa 2013 based on years old documents from before that and it details bulk data collection of US nationals' phone related material. It is feasible that in the post smartphone world and the collapse of storage tech costs it is entirely possible that this has been expanded to any device that receives and transmits IP packets. That is enough to piece together everything needed to personally know about a specific individual. Storing this info for later use (even in encrypted form) is exactly what I was detailing and that is a foregone conclusion based on what we do know.

by bgroat 5y ago

seibelj 5y ago

I'm happy when people are motivated to protest, regardless of the issue or political affiliation. Better than just taking it on the chin, over and over, slowly boiling as politicians make things worse.

bgroat 5y ago
I'm going to edit my parent comment for more context, because I realize my initial comment was unclear

nitrogen 5y ago

The existence of worse problems does not make other problems go away. It's reasonable and desirable to strive for a better future no matter how good the present is.

bgroat 5y ago
Upvoting this because I agree with you. Edited the parent comment to provide some more context
dominotw 5y ago
Wouldn't that imply people are forever oppressed because things can be better.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  If your line of work is "being one of those who can properly identify and point out oppression," and then "sell training/books/seminars/etc to make people feel like they're doing something to resolve it," it would be bad for business to actually change the state of things. Greer did some writing on this state of things, and termed it "The Rescue Game" [0]. It's notably static, in that the people who claim the high position in the game really don't want to be removed from that position. [0]: https://www.resilience.org/stories/2016-04-14/american-narratives-the-rescue-game/ https://www.resilience.org/stories/2016-04-14/american-narra...
- nebula8804 5y ago
  No because if the law is applied equally to all people regardless of background by definition the reason to protest does not exist anymore. Think about it, this was the whole point of BLM: Please stop shooting/killing/maiming unarmed Black people at a disproportionally higher rate than members of other groups.
- adamisom 5y ago
  Welcome to the news cycle! The world improves, but one thing remains constant (stubbornly disconnected from whether or not, and how much, things are improving): amount of outrage
throw10920 5y ago
The issue is that calling America a "fascistic regime" is flat-out wrong (at this point in time). It's just completely false - it doesn't matter that there are some issues, because it's crystal-clear to anyone who has read a few history books (or lived under an actual fascist regime, as one of my relatives has) that America ain't it.

icelancer 5y ago

You know that relative freedom exists when people are free to protest and discuss openly incredibly stupid ideas. It's a feature, not bug.

nebula8804 5y ago

The problem is that little by little these freedoms are being chipped away so it requires constant fighting and pushing back in an extreme fashion to hopefully slow it down. For example: You want to protest Israel? Great but now in 35 states you cannot accept any government jobs. [1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#Anti-BDS_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#Anti-BDS_laws_in... Another example: NSA is slurping up every last detail of Americans complete being. That we know thanks to snowden. If we keep going down this slope, what is to prevent them from using this data on you? Already we saw examples of them targeting Trump cabinet officials. If a real hard left candidate makes it anywhere close to the white house, you can be sure any skeletons will come out thanks to this data trove. And finally an example closer to protesting: How is a country not creeping closer to fascism if they are literally kidnapping protesters and putting them in unmarked vans? [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XomXxmJTrLI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XomXxmJTrLI So yeah I guess you can say that America is a lot more polite about oppressing people. They don't typically pull their citizens into a back alley and shoot them. These days that is less effective than their current strategy. They accomplish the oppression in smarter more tangible ways through the ease of passing restrictive laws in addition to making trouble and asking forgiveness later(this is what happened with the unmarked van story although I don't know how the investigation turned out).

throw10920 5y ago
> NSA is slurping up every last detail of Americans complete being. That we know thanks to snowden. If you've actually read the Snowden papers, you'd know that they don't say anything remotely resembling this.
- nebula8804 5y ago
  Well the report is circa 2013 based on years old documents from before that and it details bulk data collection of US nationals' phone related material. It is feasible that in the post smartphone world and the collapse of storage tech costs it is entirely possible that this has been expanded to any device that receives and transmits IP packets. That is enough to piece together everything needed to personally know about a specific individual. Storing this info for later use (even in encrypted form) is exactly what I was detailing and that is a foregone conclusion based on what we do know.