4 ms·

It's not a free market for manipulation. There are laws and rules designed to safeguard open and free exchange of information and opinions, and covert influenc

It's not a free market for manipulation. There are laws and rules designed to safeguard open and free exchange of information and opinions, and covert influence is regularly forbidden. The big difference is that domestic influence is much easier to (eventually) unveil (see Watergate, Snowden, panama papers etc.). Foreign influence is harder to detect if it comes from a country that executes its whistleblowers and disappears its critics.

323 5y ago
> It's not a free market for manipulation. Advertising, lobbying, PR, think tanks, ... are all legal. They are all in the market for manipulation.
- uniqueuid 5y ago
  Right, these are legal and regulated forms of manipulation. Covert manipulation is mostly sanctioned through platform TOS and laws.
  - 323 5y ago
    You confuse "legal and regulated" with "transparent to the public". When Ford pays money to product place one of it's cars in a movie, that might be declared and invoiced in some contract, but you as a film watcher will never know it (unless they make a point of announcing it). So please explain how movie product placement is not covert. The same with PR, think tanks, and a lot of advertising.
    - uniqueuid 5y ago
      I am not confusing these terms. As usual, they represent a spectrum of desirability, harm, regulation and sanctions. Complete transparency to the public is of course an utopian goal. The key here is that political influence is handled very differently from commercial influence. Regulation of un-branded advertisements vary by country with some being more lenient and others more strict. But political content is frequently held to higher standards, and should be.
      - 323 5y ago
        Commercial content can be political content these days. Product placing a Ford truck and guns versus a Tesla car and rainbow t-shirts.
- thomasahle 5y ago
  Advertised content is supposed to be marked as such; not guise as organic content and upvoted by lots of bots disguising as real users.
  - 323 5y ago
    Product placement is not marked. That's the whole idea before product placement, not marking it so that it appears "organic". When a think tank expert comes on TV and talks in favor of (or against) building an oil pipeline, they will briefly announce that "X is from the Open House think tank", but not mention "a know oil company defender".

323 5y ago

> It's not a free market for manipulation. Advertising, lobbying, PR, think tanks, ... are all legal. They are all in the market for manipulation.

uniqueuid 5y ago
Right, these are legal and regulated forms of manipulation. Covert manipulation is mostly sanctioned through platform TOS and laws.
- 323 5y ago
  You confuse "legal and regulated" with "transparent to the public". When Ford pays money to product place one of it's cars in a movie, that might be declared and invoiced in some contract, but you as a film watcher will never know it (unless they make a point of announcing it). So please explain how movie product placement is not covert. The same with PR, think tanks, and a lot of advertising.
  - uniqueuid 5y ago
    I am not confusing these terms. As usual, they represent a spectrum of desirability, harm, regulation and sanctions. Complete transparency to the public is of course an utopian goal. The key here is that political influence is handled very differently from commercial influence. Regulation of un-branded advertisements vary by country with some being more lenient and others more strict. But political content is frequently held to higher standards, and should be.
    - 323 5y ago
      Commercial content can be political content these days. Product placing a Ford truck and guns versus a Tesla car and rainbow t-shirts.
thomasahle 5y ago
Advertised content is supposed to be marked as such; not guise as organic content and upvoted by lots of bots disguising as real users.
- 323 5y ago
  Product placement is not marked. That's the whole idea before product placement, not marking it so that it appears "organic". When a think tank expert comes on TV and talks in favor of (or against) building an oil pipeline, they will briefly announce that "X is from the Open House think tank", but not mention "a know oil company defender".