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One of my friends is an ICU nurse. My friend just laughs now when asked about whether vaccination works because nearly every single person in the ICU for the pa

by boc 5y ago

One of my friends is an ICU nurse. My friend just laughs now when asked about whether vaccination works because nearly every single person in the ICU for the past few months has been unvaccinated. One patient was basically 50/50 to die on the surgery table during a mechanical heart transplant due to covid destroying their natural heart, miraculously lived through it, and had the nerve to ask my friend whether they still needed to be vaccinated after they were being wheeled into the recovery area. It's almost comical the cognitive dissonance to challenge the team of doctors who literally just saved your life when they tell you to get the vaccine. Being anti-vax is basically a religion at this point, so there's no use trying to convince people.

zpeti 5y ago
While I agree being anti vax is something like a religion, the facts in your post are wrong, as has been pointed out by so many news outlets recently that even the CDC was bullshitting when they said 90% of ICU patients are unvaxxed.
- Klinky 5y ago
  Please provide reputable sources showing "CDC was bullshitting when they said 90% of ICU patients are unvaxxed". I am not even sure CDC was directly making such claims and some of the 90% figures were directly from regional hospital systems, not the CDC.
  - jerlam 5y ago
    The confusion (intentional or not) may stem from that 90% figure being of all ICU patients, covid or not, or just as a proportion of covid patients. People are still getting into car accidents, shot, and having heart attacks.
  - spfzero 5y ago
    As a datapoint, my county publishes daily hospitalizations by vaccination status. Some vaccinated people are showing up, maybe 15-20%. So less than 90% unvaccinated there. But that is just hospitalization. For more serious outcomes I'd guess the unvaccinated percentage is higher even than 90%.
    - InitialLastName 5y ago
      This is meaningless without knowing how the base rate (what portion of people in your country are vaccinated) compares to the US. If more people are vaccinated and vaccination is anything less than 100% effective against hospitalization, then by definition a smaller portion of those hospitalized will be unvaccinated.
- xnyan 5y ago
  > as has been pointed out by so many news outlets recently that even the CDC was bullshitting Source please?
  - _Understated_ 5y ago
    Not US data but UK data backs it up: https://fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent/ https://fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-perc...
sshine 5y ago
> had the nerve to ask my friend whether they still needed to be vaccinated after Considering the unlikeliness of being able to get COVID twice, that is, in fact a god question with a very non-trivial answer. McCullough on getting COVID twice (2m54s): https://youtu.be/5kGK_dZsQ4U https://youtu.be/5kGK_dZsQ4U s/Being anti-vax is basically a religion/Being informed is basically a maze/ Not all people who are not vaccinated are anti-vaxxers, not all who are vaccinated think that the vaccination policies are sensible, and criticizing vaccination policy is not the same as being anti-vaxxer.
- ReallyOldLurker 5y ago
  > not all who are vaccinated think that the vaccination policies are sensible, and criticizing vaccination policy is not the same as being anti-vaxxer Agreed. I am vaccinated, but I think that most of the Federal and Oregon state policy is political baloney.
- geofft 5y ago
  I never thought I'd be saying this, but Joe Rogan is right here. The claim that it's impossible to get covid twice contradicts obvious empirical evidence - and more importantly, reasoning from first principles gives you no particular reason why it would be true. This dude is establishing an awfully high level of evidence - PCR tests, antigen tests, etc. between the two instances - which probably isn't even collected when people get covid. Why would you? If you're feeling awful, and you have a positive PCR test, why take an antigen test? So there are quite possibly a number of cases where this dude's level of evidence doesn't exist, and he goes straight from absence of evidence to evidence of absence. But the extraordinary claim, that you can't get covid twice, is what needs high levels of evidence - which he handwaves away by saying maybe it was the flu. Prove that! Show the flu test results! The ordinary claim is that you can get it twice, and demanding extraordinary evidence for that is just foolish.
CottonMcKnight 5y ago
She's very lucky it was a mechanical heart and not a donor organ, as being anti-vaccine is enough to get kicked to the bottom of the recipient list.
- boc 5y ago
  That's why she got a mechanical heart - she was rejected for a transplant because of her vax status. Which makes her hesitancy even more ridiculous since being unvax'd nearly killed her in two different ways.
duevtxyjdufy 5y ago

by boc 5y ago

zpeti 5y ago

While I agree being anti vax is something like a religion, the facts in your post are wrong, as has been pointed out by so many news outlets recently that even the CDC was bullshitting when they said 90% of ICU patients are unvaxxed.

Klinky 5y ago
Please provide reputable sources showing "CDC was bullshitting when they said 90% of ICU patients are unvaxxed". I am not even sure CDC was directly making such claims and some of the 90% figures were directly from regional hospital systems, not the CDC.
- jerlam 5y ago
  The confusion (intentional or not) may stem from that 90% figure being of all ICU patients, covid or not, or just as a proportion of covid patients. People are still getting into car accidents, shot, and having heart attacks.
- spfzero 5y ago
  As a datapoint, my county publishes daily hospitalizations by vaccination status. Some vaccinated people are showing up, maybe 15-20%. So less than 90% unvaccinated there. But that is just hospitalization. For more serious outcomes I'd guess the unvaccinated percentage is higher even than 90%.
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    This is meaningless without knowing how the base rate (what portion of people in your country are vaccinated) compares to the US. If more people are vaccinated and vaccination is anything less than 100% effective against hospitalization, then by definition a smaller portion of those hospitalized will be unvaccinated.
xnyan 5y ago
> as has been pointed out by so many news outlets recently that even the CDC was bullshitting Source please?
- _Understated_ 5y ago
  Not US data but UK data backs it up: https://fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent/ https://fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-perc...

sshine 5y ago

> had the nerve to ask my friend whether they still needed to be vaccinated after Considering the unlikeliness of being able to get COVID twice, that is, in fact a god question with a very non-trivial answer. McCullough on getting COVID twice (2m54s): https://youtu.be/5kGK_dZsQ4U https://youtu.be/5kGK_dZsQ4U s/Being anti-vax is basically a religion/Being informed is basically a maze/ Not all people who are not vaccinated are anti-vaxxers, not all who are vaccinated think that the vaccination policies are sensible, and criticizing vaccination policy is not the same as being anti-vaxxer.

ReallyOldLurker 5y ago
> not all who are vaccinated think that the vaccination policies are sensible, and criticizing vaccination policy is not the same as being anti-vaxxer Agreed. I am vaccinated, but I think that most of the Federal and Oregon state policy is political baloney.
geofft 5y ago
I never thought I'd be saying this, but Joe Rogan is right here. The claim that it's impossible to get covid twice contradicts obvious empirical evidence - and more importantly, reasoning from first principles gives you no particular reason why it would be true. This dude is establishing an awfully high level of evidence - PCR tests, antigen tests, etc. between the two instances - which probably isn't even collected when people get covid. Why would you? If you're feeling awful, and you have a positive PCR test, why take an antigen test? So there are quite possibly a number of cases where this dude's level of evidence doesn't exist, and he goes straight from absence of evidence to evidence of absence. But the extraordinary claim, that you can't get covid twice, is what needs high levels of evidence - which he handwaves away by saying maybe it was the flu. Prove that! Show the flu test results! The ordinary claim is that you can get it twice, and demanding extraordinary evidence for that is just foolish.

CottonMcKnight 5y ago

She's very lucky it was a mechanical heart and not a donor organ, as being anti-vaccine is enough to get kicked to the bottom of the recipient list.

boc 5y ago
That's why she got a mechanical heart - she was rejected for a transplant because of her vax status. Which makes her hesitancy even more ridiculous since being unvax'd nearly killed her in two different ways.

duevtxyjdufy 5y ago