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Unfortunately there are scenarios where providing a documented reason or appeal is a vulnerability, illegal or both. A too-clear disclosure gives bad actors in

Unfortunately there are scenarios where providing a documented reason or appeal is a vulnerability, illegal or both. A too-clear disclosure gives bad actors information on how to circumvent controls around safety, abuse, and fraud. If the reason an account is deleted includes some sort of KYC/Money Laundering issue, OFAC style sanction or child porn, then there can be legal obligation, with severe penalty, to both report and not tip off the user.

ball_of_lint 5y ago
Although that might be applicable to businesses that let people deal with money, why would any of those be an issue for Tinder?
coryrc 5y ago
It would be legal if there was a law making it so, just as GP suggested. This is trivially solvable if creating an account required an in-person verification, like when you go into a bank to open an account. Since it's not mandatory, anybody who does so is beaten by anyone who doesn't (worse is better). So we should make it mandatory.
emptysongglass 5y ago
Any and all of these possibilities (vulnerability, illegal, or both) must be legalized or otherwise reframed as a cost of doing business. Every human deserves to be informed, whoever they are, regardless of status, wherever they are in the world. That we've allowed blackbox proceedings to take over these small quadrants of human society is a societal failure. The burden to secure such systems shall always fall upon the makers of those systems. Let me be very clear that any excuse made under the veil of security including the enshrining of such in our books of law is incompatible with a society that respects the dignity to live free. It is a vicious abuse of power by those with knowledge over those robbed of it.
- sterlind 5y ago
  A good compromise might be to require explanations or shadow bans to be revealed say, 30 days after the action, in the case of bans because of suspected crimes. In the case of CP or terrorism this gives reasonable time for the Feds to find and arrest you and your conspirators. This is how the Patriot Act worked with publishing warrants, for better or worse.
anamax 5y ago
Disclosure also gives people information on how to stay within the rules. Account deletion tips off the user so we're not talking about cases where there's a legal obligation to not tip off the user.
satellite2 5y ago
KYC blacklists are generally publicly available. Can you provide documentation about your claims? The only cases where I've seen service providers ordered to not tip off the user were actually associated with order of continuation of the service, to ... not tip off the user.

ball_of_lint 5y ago

Although that might be applicable to businesses that let people deal with money, why would any of those be an issue for Tinder?

coryrc 5y ago

It would be legal if there was a law making it so, just as GP suggested. This is trivially solvable if creating an account required an in-person verification, like when you go into a bank to open an account. Since it's not mandatory, anybody who does so is beaten by anyone who doesn't (worse is better). So we should make it mandatory.

emptysongglass 5y ago

Any and all of these possibilities (vulnerability, illegal, or both) must be legalized or otherwise reframed as a cost of doing business. Every human deserves to be informed, whoever they are, regardless of status, wherever they are in the world. That we've allowed blackbox proceedings to take over these small quadrants of human society is a societal failure. The burden to secure such systems shall always fall upon the makers of those systems. Let me be very clear that any excuse made under the veil of security including the enshrining of such in our books of law is incompatible with a society that respects the dignity to live free. It is a vicious abuse of power by those with knowledge over those robbed of it.

sterlind 5y ago
A good compromise might be to require explanations or shadow bans to be revealed say, 30 days after the action, in the case of bans because of suspected crimes. In the case of CP or terrorism this gives reasonable time for the Feds to find and arrest you and your conspirators. This is how the Patriot Act worked with publishing warrants, for better or worse.

anamax 5y ago

Disclosure also gives people information on how to stay within the rules. Account deletion tips off the user so we're not talking about cases where there's a legal obligation to not tip off the user.

satellite2 5y ago

KYC blacklists are generally publicly available. Can you provide documentation about your claims? The only cases where I've seen service providers ordered to not tip off the user were actually associated with order of continuation of the service, to ... not tip off the user.