7 ms·

Who decides which “markets” a company is in and measures their market share in those markets? How is market share measured? Is Tinder a dating service or socia

Who decides which “markets” a company is in and measures their market share in those markets? How is market share measured? Is Tinder a dating service or social media company? If Facebook starts offering a dating feature in app and becomes the biggest player in the dating space, which market is facebook in? Both? If both, does all of facebook's market cap/DAU/whatever metric we settle on to measure market share get fully applied to both markets or split in some way? Basically, I think implementing "if $market_share > n" is not a trivial problem that will be litigated to death. The companies with the best lawyers will win.

foepys 5y ago
Let's not pretend like this is an impossible task. Some EU countries already have laws that base regulations on company size and number of customers.
- jaredklewis 5y ago
  Sure, but market share and company size are two fundamentally different problems. Measuring the size of a company is a lot easier: you pick some metric (employees, revenue, profit, customers, etc...) and apply it to all companies. Measuring market share requires that you categorize all companies into "markets," which think is pretty subjective. Is Jet Brains an IDE company? A software company? How about Apple? If multiple, are metrics split? Whatever rules you pick, they're going to be biased towards some companies (including some big ones not popular on HN) and against other companies (including some companies HN loves).
thomastjeffery 5y ago
Humans
- jaredklewis 5y ago
  Well yes, lawyers are humans, but that doesn't help us.
  - thomastjeffery 5y ago
    It might, it might not. Pessimism isn't the only conclusion.
rytill 5y ago
This comment is downvoted, but he raises a valid point aside from the scare quotes. How exactly will it work?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dbingham 5y ago
A democratically elected government. Look, there is no such thing as a "natural market" that can keep the power of the actors in it in check. The internet was the closest thing to a perfect market that has ever existed and all it has produced is overpowered monopoly after overpowered monopoly. If we want a free society, we don't get that by handing power over to the markets. We get that by building the most responsive democracy we can, and then using that to keep power (in all its forms, including business) in check. So who decides which businesses are too powerful? People, elected and held accountable by citizenry at large.
- jaredklewis 5y ago
  Sure, I am not a libertarian or anything like that. I'm all for good regulation and strong government. However, making good laws and regulations is not easy! The details of these things is incredibly important and can't be solved by some sort of generic market vs government debate. And while I do think government has a role to play, most of our regulations are poorly designed and have been captured by corporate interests. I don't see how the proposed rule could be implemented in a way that would have the desired outcome.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > The details of these things is incredibly important and can't be solved by some sort of generic market vs government debate. > most of our regulations are poorly designed and have been captured by corporate interests Isn't the second comment a generic statement? Do you have specific data? I agree that the details are incredibly important.
    - jaredklewis 5y ago
      Fair enough, I'm generalizing that US regulations are poorly designed, based mostly on my experience with municipal building codes and few niches of finance regulation. But about the issue at hand, I've been specific in my critique: market share is an amorphous concept and thus ill-suited to legislation and a prime opportunity for regulatory capture.
gleenn 5y ago
Facebook has dating functionality

foepys 5y ago

Let's not pretend like this is an impossible task. Some EU countries already have laws that base regulations on company size and number of customers.

jaredklewis 5y ago
Sure, but market share and company size are two fundamentally different problems. Measuring the size of a company is a lot easier: you pick some metric (employees, revenue, profit, customers, etc...) and apply it to all companies. Measuring market share requires that you categorize all companies into "markets," which think is pretty subjective. Is Jet Brains an IDE company? A software company? How about Apple? If multiple, are metrics split? Whatever rules you pick, they're going to be biased towards some companies (including some big ones not popular on HN) and against other companies (including some companies HN loves).

thomastjeffery 5y ago

Humans

jaredklewis 5y ago
Well yes, lawyers are humans, but that doesn't help us.
- thomastjeffery 5y ago
  It might, it might not. Pessimism isn't the only conclusion.

rytill 5y ago

This comment is downvoted, but he raises a valid point aside from the scare quotes. How exactly will it work?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dbingham 5y ago

A democratically elected government. Look, there is no such thing as a "natural market" that can keep the power of the actors in it in check. The internet was the closest thing to a perfect market that has ever existed and all it has produced is overpowered monopoly after overpowered monopoly. If we want a free society, we don't get that by handing power over to the markets. We get that by building the most responsive democracy we can, and then using that to keep power (in all its forms, including business) in check. So who decides which businesses are too powerful? People, elected and held accountable by citizenry at large.

jaredklewis 5y ago
Sure, I am not a libertarian or anything like that. I'm all for good regulation and strong government. However, making good laws and regulations is not easy! The details of these things is incredibly important and can't be solved by some sort of generic market vs government debate. And while I do think government has a role to play, most of our regulations are poorly designed and have been captured by corporate interests. I don't see how the proposed rule could be implemented in a way that would have the desired outcome.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > The details of these things is incredibly important and can't be solved by some sort of generic market vs government debate. > most of our regulations are poorly designed and have been captured by corporate interests Isn't the second comment a generic statement? Do you have specific data? I agree that the details are incredibly important.
  - jaredklewis 5y ago
    Fair enough, I'm generalizing that US regulations are poorly designed, based mostly on my experience with municipal building codes and few niches of finance regulation. But about the issue at hand, I've been specific in my critique: market share is an amorphous concept and thus ill-suited to legislation and a prime opportunity for regulatory capture.

gleenn 5y ago

Facebook has dating functionality