5 ms·

These are som pretty impressive goals. If they can truly achieve a hover state as quiet as 60db, and get the efficiency they've outlined, these could truly cha

These are som pretty impressive goals. If they can truly achieve a hover state as quiet as 60db, and get the efficiency they've outlined, these could truly change the way we look at short-haul travel. The idea of a 2 hour drive from a small town to the big city being reduced to a 1hr flight (with no airport - yay helipads) is already a market where helicopters are making money. Doing that in even less time, in more comfort (ugh - choppers are loud), and at lower cost per hour/mile will change things dramatically.

bostonsre 5y ago
Yea, 60 decibels at 100m would be pretty crazy to achieve.
avidiax 5y ago
60dB @ 100m is 77db @ 15m For comparison, in Washington state, the legal limit for an automotive exhaust is 72db@15m. Still an achievement, but definitely not something you want your neighbor to land at 3 am.
- ananonymoususer 5y ago
  Can we please use dBa (a measure of absolute sound pressure) rather than dB (a relative term used in many domains)?
- wmf 5y ago
  Obviously aircraft are louder than cars. It seems like this should be compared to a helicopter since it uses the same pads.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    They should be compared to vehicles that occur in the space that these "air taxis" are meant to take off and land in. If they're relegated to airports, fine, compare to helicopters. If they're meant to take off and land in my neighborhood, compare them to cars.
fh973 5y ago
It might actually be too good to be true. The German magazine Aerokurier is citing experts that seem to have doubts about feasibility [1]. The category is called air taxis, other competitors are Volocopter and Archer, with different concepts. [1] https://topgear-autoguide.com/category/sports-car/futuristic-air-taxi-is-the-lilium-jet-a-blow-jobij1607842281 https://topgear-autoguide.com/category/sports-car/futuristic...
- hef19898 5y ago
  Aerokurier has an axe to grind with Lilium. That their initial coverage caused quite a stir up just motivated them to continue down that road. Doesn't mean Lilium is actually a guaranteed success, just that Aerokurier isn't the most balanced source.
- gibolt 5y ago
  Experts always have questions about disruptive technology. They are often not right, since disruptions are not incremental change, but tons of nuanced ones that lead to a significantly better overall system. Edit: "Often" does not mean always, or the majority of the time. Lilium is clearly not a scam, and seems to be making steady progress towards their goals.
  - chefkoch 5y ago
    ...but physics isn't something that cares If you want to disrupt.
    - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
      I think this is such an important point to differentiate. Yes, incumbent experts can be caught flat-footed when a new technology comes along that is essentially just much better at what they do. Best example in my mind is the iPhone, where essentially the big old-school cell phone execs totally poo-poo'ed Apple's ability to create a compelling cell phone in 2008: "A computer company doesn't know what they're doing." But that is fundamentally different than pointing out real physical limitations of an idea, and the danger is you get exactly the OP response, "The old guard always dismisses you until you change the world!" yada yada. This is basically exactly what happened with Theranos - anyone in the actual field of microfluidics knew it was all bullshit.
axiosgunnar 5y ago
How is 2h to 1h any „revolution“? And wouldn‘t simple (bullet) trains be better for that?
- orangepurple 5y ago
  New train lines won't be built ever again in the United States
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > New train lines won't be built ever again in the United States New train lines are being built now in the United States.
    - renewiltord 5y ago
      There's construction ongoing on new train lines in the United States. Whether they're being built is up for debate.
- deepnotderp 5y ago
  A small town doesn’t have the density for a HSR link, see eg China’s HSR debt. A 120 mile link at 14 million a mile is more than a billion dollars.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    I really doubt that at any appreciable scale eVTOL is nearly as cost effective as HSR, no matter how expensive that is
- loudmax 5y ago
  A bullet train is better if there's one that already happens to go from your location to your destination. If they manage to make these VTOL planes safe and cheap enough, they'll be far easier to deploy than any train system. Also while there's overlap between short haul aviation and train markets, the infrastructures don't have to be mutually exclusive.
RandallBrown 5y ago
My take was actually the opposite. I can't see this changing anything. Since this thing won't be able to take off from my driveway or land at my destination, I figure it will still take 2 hours to go door to door. Once you arrive, you'll still need your own transportation too. Unless this is somehow cheaper and more comfortable than driving, I can't imagine ever using something like this.

bostonsre 5y ago

Yea, 60 decibels at 100m would be pretty crazy to achieve.

avidiax 5y ago

60dB @ 100m is 77db @ 15m For comparison, in Washington state, the legal limit for an automotive exhaust is 72db@15m. Still an achievement, but definitely not something you want your neighbor to land at 3 am.

ananonymoususer 5y ago
Can we please use dBa (a measure of absolute sound pressure) rather than dB (a relative term used in many domains)?
wmf 5y ago
Obviously aircraft are louder than cars. It seems like this should be compared to a helicopter since it uses the same pads.
- klyrs 5y ago
  They should be compared to vehicles that occur in the space that these "air taxis" are meant to take off and land in. If they're relegated to airports, fine, compare to helicopters. If they're meant to take off and land in my neighborhood, compare them to cars.

fh973 5y ago

It might actually be too good to be true. The German magazine Aerokurier is citing experts that seem to have doubts about feasibility [1]. The category is called air taxis, other competitors are Volocopter and Archer, with different concepts. [1] https://topgear-autoguide.com/category/sports-car/futuristic-air-taxi-is-the-lilium-jet-a-blow-jobij1607842281 https://topgear-autoguide.com/category/sports-car/futuristic...

hef19898 5y ago
Aerokurier has an axe to grind with Lilium. That their initial coverage caused quite a stir up just motivated them to continue down that road. Doesn't mean Lilium is actually a guaranteed success, just that Aerokurier isn't the most balanced source.
gibolt 5y ago
Experts always have questions about disruptive technology. They are often not right, since disruptions are not incremental change, but tons of nuanced ones that lead to a significantly better overall system. Edit: "Often" does not mean always, or the majority of the time. Lilium is clearly not a scam, and seems to be making steady progress towards their goals.
- chefkoch 5y ago
  ...but physics isn't something that cares If you want to disrupt.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    I think this is such an important point to differentiate. Yes, incumbent experts can be caught flat-footed when a new technology comes along that is essentially just much better at what they do. Best example in my mind is the iPhone, where essentially the big old-school cell phone execs totally poo-poo'ed Apple's ability to create a compelling cell phone in 2008: "A computer company doesn't know what they're doing." But that is fundamentally different than pointing out real physical limitations of an idea, and the danger is you get exactly the OP response, "The old guard always dismisses you until you change the world!" yada yada. This is basically exactly what happened with Theranos - anyone in the actual field of microfluidics knew it was all bullshit.

axiosgunnar 5y ago

How is 2h to 1h any „revolution“? And wouldn‘t simple (bullet) trains be better for that?

orangepurple 5y ago
New train lines won't be built ever again in the United States
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > New train lines won't be built ever again in the United States New train lines are being built now in the United States.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    There's construction ongoing on new train lines in the United States. Whether they're being built is up for debate.
deepnotderp 5y ago
A small town doesn’t have the density for a HSR link, see eg China’s HSR debt. A 120 mile link at 14 million a mile is more than a billion dollars.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I really doubt that at any appreciable scale eVTOL is nearly as cost effective as HSR, no matter how expensive that is
loudmax 5y ago
A bullet train is better if there's one that already happens to go from your location to your destination. If they manage to make these VTOL planes safe and cheap enough, they'll be far easier to deploy than any train system. Also while there's overlap between short haul aviation and train markets, the infrastructures don't have to be mutually exclusive.

RandallBrown 5y ago

My take was actually the opposite. I can't see this changing anything. Since this thing won't be able to take off from my driveway or land at my destination, I figure it will still take 2 hours to go door to door. Once you arrive, you'll still need your own transportation too. Unless this is somehow cheaper and more comfortable than driving, I can't imagine ever using something like this.