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I'm not single and haven't been fora long time, but my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. Even

I'm not single and haven't been fora long time, but my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps, so it's harder to find people in the real world. Not impossible, obviously, but getting banned from Tinder is kind of a big deal. (Also all these apps are owned by the same company, I think it's the Match Group.)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
csa 5y ago
> my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. This is definitely not true. > Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps This is true. > so it's harder to find people in the real world. This is sort of true. By not using a dating app, a single person is relegating themselves to how things were pre-app. Some of those pre-app options are less common now, other new ways are more common. The apps widened the dating door for certain people, specifically for people who are not particularly keen on getting out and meeting people (probably quite a few folks like that on HN) as well as people who are looking to get married asap[1]. That said, for people who get out and do things, meeting people to date is not difficult at all. Getting banned from Tinder for those folks is, at worst, a loss of a time filler activity (swiping). I will also add that, of the apps, tinder might be one of the worst in terms of quality match ups. [1] Apps are also good for highly desirable dates since their pool goes from big to biggest, but those folks aren’t really the topic here since they aren’t short on access to dates with or without an app.
- caminante 5y ago
  After checking reality, online dating's the #1 way people meet, and its market share (>50%) is growing. [0] [1] [0] https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-way-u-s-couples-meet/ https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-w... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-about-americans-and-online-dating/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-ab...
  - csa 5y ago
    Sure. It widened the options for most people. Excellent! That said, as the post I originally responded to suggested, I don’t think that getting banned from Tinder or any dating app in particular is a “big deal”. Maybe a minor inconvenience for most people, but it’s not like someone who gets banned from Tinder is doomed to a life without dates.
  - goblin89 5y ago
    To save someone a click, so there is a study indicating 40% of couples “met online” (so via Twitter, IG, HN, Reddit, gaming, WhatsApp groups, etc., not necessarily dating apps); and then a study specifically about online dating apps where most participants were recruited online (in addition to the usual selection bias) so I didn’t bother checking results. Both are US-centric.
    - caminante 5y ago
      >To save someone a click, And yet you admit >I didn’t bother checking results. Both are US-centric. ... You need to let the Stanford Professor and Pew Research know they're unqualified to perform research. :S
      - goblin89 5y ago
        To reiterate, the first paper does not specifically pertain to dating apps, and the methodology of the second article is flawed (you want to know whether people meet online, so you ask people of whom >50% you found online, great technique)—so it might save someone who cares about that kind of stuff a click (a few clicks actually, since the methodology is buried in a separate article). If you don’t fall into that category, feel free to move along. And I don’t know the author of the second article personally, but if I did of course I would point out an issue with their data.
        caminante 5y ago
        You're being difficult on purpose. > methodology is buried in a separate article It's an EXPLICIT footnote! See "Note; Here [is the report's] metholodgy." > Methodology of the second article is flawed (you want to know whether people meet online, so you ask people online, great technique) The methodology goes into statistical techniques to control for biases (e.g. language, gender identity, sampling method, etc.) See Methodology > Weighting about what they did with their ~5k responses.
- LandR 5y ago
  Dating exclusively by apps might be reality for the younger US populations. There was a thread on Reddit a few months ago where people were asking bad places for men to approach women. It was basically Work School Gym Church Any place you go for hobby Public transport Shops Bars Anywhere outside at night Parks The consensus was basically the women on this Reddit thread don't want men approaching them in any way whatsoever that isnt a dating app. All alternative s were creepy. Now Reddit is mostly young and American, so who knows. Dating in the US seems crazy.
throwawayacc2 5y ago
I don’t think that is correct. I’m in London and have an American girlfriend. We met and got together the good old fashioned way. Getting pissed at a pub together.
helloworld11 5y ago
No offense, but bullshit. I've personally never once in my life used a single dating app and have met plenty of dates and love interests the old fashioned way, by interacting with them in the real world after random encounters (bars, events etc) or through circles of friends. Most of the people I know met their own love interests in the same way. I don't live in some backward country with little app use either. What a sad existence it would be to have something as fundamental as one's romantic life depend on a shitty, arbitrary and parasitic data collecting app that feels it has the right to treat its users like cash cattle with no recourse for any unfair ToS decision it makes. Grotesque.
- Zachsa999 5y ago
  I have heard that as well, may it be some underhanded programming?
- caminante 5y ago
  Parent didn't say it's not possible, and your situation is anecdotal. If over 50% of people (and growing) say their relationship started on OLD, it's easy to say you're limiting your options by not participating [0] [0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-about-americans-and-online-dating/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-ab...
  - Invictus0 5y ago
    > If over 50% of people (and growing) say their relationship started on OLD, it's easy to say you're limiting your options by not participating A does not in any way imply B. I strongly doubt that a non-negligible number of OLD users restrict themselves to using only OLD and automatically reject in-person advances. OP's "options" are still the same as before: all the singles in his physical meatspace.
    - caminante 5y ago
      > A does not in any way imply B. Huh? What are [A] and [B] in this situation? > I strongly doubt that a non-negligible number of OLD users restrict themselves to using only OLD and automatically reject in-person advances. OP's "options" are still the same as before: all the singles in his physical meatspace. You're assuming that a non-trivial number of people who use OLD aren't exclusive to OLD. Who's taking issue with that? OTOH, saying that one's set of available dates is unchanged by foregoing OLD is deeply flawed. You even mention "physical meatspace" which OLD directly overcomes.
Mezzie 5y ago
If you're gay, this is true. Especially if you don't live in a large city. I've just given up on finding a wife/partner. My options are just... bad.
- cultofmetatron 5y ago
  if you're in north America, take heart that its not your fault! The American dating market is absolute garbage. I've been traveling around the world the last few years and have had no problems finding casual hookups and longer term relationships. I'm currently dating a beautiful Colombiana. I would have thought she was out of my league if I was still living in the US.
  - pratik661 5y ago
    > if you're in north America, take heart that its not your fault! The American dating market is absolute garbage. What do you mean?
    - cultofmetatron 5y ago
      People can't handle truth and I'd rather not be downvoted to oblivion. Suffice to say, the american dating market is heavily geared towards attractive white men over 6 ft tall. They better also be a millionaire if you're in the bay area. I'd suggest traveling like I have to southeast Asia, Europe and latin America for extended periods of time and see for yourself.
      - Mezzie 5y ago
        > Suffice to say, the american dating market is heavily geared towards attractive white men over 6 ft tall. They better also be a millionaire if you're in the bay area. The lesbian dating market is a bit different. ;)
        cultofmetatron 5y ago
        haha thats probably very true. I'd say don't give up!. travel as well, it'll enrich your life and make your more interesting to that special someone when you finally meet her. I wouldn't be surprised if you meet her in your travels.
vintermann 5y ago
Yeah. I'm off the "market" for 15+ years, but I really worry when I read about normal-seeming 20 year olds (or even younger) who met their partners on Tinder. It's something that's going to affect young people whether they take part in it themselves or not. Ruthless markets in relationships probably aren't going to make them happy.
yosito 5y ago
> my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps I understand why so many people believe this. But pro tip: if you want to opt out of dating apps, the key is to learn the skill of asking for what you want. Ask the cute person at the coffee shop if you can have their number. Ask the person who's number you got out for a date. Ask the person you're on a date with if they want to kiss, etc. There is an art to successfully asking for things, and you have to get comfortable with people sometimes saying no, but the key really is that simple: just ask! It's actually easier in real life to get a date with someone you find interesting, because you're not limited by who the algorithm decides to show your profile to, you're only limited by your willingness to ask.
kenneth 5y ago
Haha, this is ridiculous. Picking up dates in real life is not only still completely doable, but probably easier these days due to the sheer lack of competition from men who just have no idea how to do it.
- drevil-v2 5y ago
  My thoughts exactly. It’s like some of these people have never gone out on weekends or even had a chat with a woman randomly at the gym, supermarket, at cafe, out for a walk. What’s the problem? Just say hi and be normal. If she doesn’t seem interested, smile and move on!

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

csa 5y ago

> my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. This is definitely not true. > Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps This is true. > so it's harder to find people in the real world. This is sort of true. By not using a dating app, a single person is relegating themselves to how things were pre-app. Some of those pre-app options are less common now, other new ways are more common. The apps widened the dating door for certain people, specifically for people who are not particularly keen on getting out and meeting people (probably quite a few folks like that on HN) as well as people who are looking to get married asap[1]. That said, for people who get out and do things, meeting people to date is not difficult at all. Getting banned from Tinder for those folks is, at worst, a loss of a time filler activity (swiping). I will also add that, of the apps, tinder might be one of the worst in terms of quality match ups. [1] Apps are also good for highly desirable dates since their pool goes from big to biggest, but those folks aren’t really the topic here since they aren’t short on access to dates with or without an app.

caminante 5y ago
After checking reality, online dating's the #1 way people meet, and its market share (>50%) is growing. [0] [1] [0] https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-way-u-s-couples-meet/ https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-w... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-about-americans-and-online-dating/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-ab...
- csa 5y ago
  Sure. It widened the options for most people. Excellent! That said, as the post I originally responded to suggested, I don’t think that getting banned from Tinder or any dating app in particular is a “big deal”. Maybe a minor inconvenience for most people, but it’s not like someone who gets banned from Tinder is doomed to a life without dates.
- goblin89 5y ago
  To save someone a click, so there is a study indicating 40% of couples “met online” (so via Twitter, IG, HN, Reddit, gaming, WhatsApp groups, etc., not necessarily dating apps); and then a study specifically about online dating apps where most participants were recruited online (in addition to the usual selection bias) so I didn’t bother checking results. Both are US-centric.
  - caminante 5y ago
    >To save someone a click, And yet you admit >I didn’t bother checking results. Both are US-centric. ... You need to let the Stanford Professor and Pew Research know they're unqualified to perform research. :S
    - goblin89 5y ago
      To reiterate, the first paper does not specifically pertain to dating apps, and the methodology of the second article is flawed (you want to know whether people meet online, so you ask people of whom >50% you found online, great technique)—so it might save someone who cares about that kind of stuff a click (a few clicks actually, since the methodology is buried in a separate article). If you don’t fall into that category, feel free to move along. And I don’t know the author of the second article personally, but if I did of course I would point out an issue with their data.
      - caminante 5y ago
        You're being difficult on purpose. > methodology is buried in a separate article It's an EXPLICIT footnote! See "Note; Here [is the report's] metholodgy." > Methodology of the second article is flawed (you want to know whether people meet online, so you ask people online, great technique) The methodology goes into statistical techniques to control for biases (e.g. language, gender identity, sampling method, etc.) See Methodology > Weighting about what they did with their ~5k responses.
LandR 5y ago
Dating exclusively by apps might be reality for the younger US populations. There was a thread on Reddit a few months ago where people were asking bad places for men to approach women. It was basically Work School Gym Church Any place you go for hobby Public transport Shops Bars Anywhere outside at night Parks The consensus was basically the women on this Reddit thread don't want men approaching them in any way whatsoever that isnt a dating app. All alternative s were creepy. Now Reddit is mostly young and American, so who knows. Dating in the US seems crazy.

throwawayacc2 5y ago

I don’t think that is correct. I’m in London and have an American girlfriend. We met and got together the good old fashioned way. Getting pissed at a pub together.

helloworld11 5y ago

No offense, but bullshit. I've personally never once in my life used a single dating app and have met plenty of dates and love interests the old fashioned way, by interacting with them in the real world after random encounters (bars, events etc) or through circles of friends. Most of the people I know met their own love interests in the same way. I don't live in some backward country with little app use either. What a sad existence it would be to have something as fundamental as one's romantic life depend on a shitty, arbitrary and parasitic data collecting app that feels it has the right to treat its users like cash cattle with no recourse for any unfair ToS decision it makes. Grotesque.

Zachsa999 5y ago
I have heard that as well, may it be some underhanded programming?
caminante 5y ago
Parent didn't say it's not possible, and your situation is anecdotal. If over 50% of people (and growing) say their relationship started on OLD, it's easy to say you're limiting your options by not participating [0] [0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-about-americans-and-online-dating/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-ab...
- Invictus0 5y ago
  > If over 50% of people (and growing) say their relationship started on OLD, it's easy to say you're limiting your options by not participating A does not in any way imply B. I strongly doubt that a non-negligible number of OLD users restrict themselves to using only OLD and automatically reject in-person advances. OP's "options" are still the same as before: all the singles in his physical meatspace.
  - caminante 5y ago
    > A does not in any way imply B. Huh? What are [A] and [B] in this situation? > I strongly doubt that a non-negligible number of OLD users restrict themselves to using only OLD and automatically reject in-person advances. OP's "options" are still the same as before: all the singles in his physical meatspace. You're assuming that a non-trivial number of people who use OLD aren't exclusive to OLD. Who's taking issue with that? OTOH, saying that one's set of available dates is unchanged by foregoing OLD is deeply flawed. You even mention "physical meatspace" which OLD directly overcomes.

Mezzie 5y ago

If you're gay, this is true. Especially if you don't live in a large city. I've just given up on finding a wife/partner. My options are just... bad.

cultofmetatron 5y ago
if you're in north America, take heart that its not your fault! The American dating market is absolute garbage. I've been traveling around the world the last few years and have had no problems finding casual hookups and longer term relationships. I'm currently dating a beautiful Colombiana. I would have thought she was out of my league if I was still living in the US.
- pratik661 5y ago
  > if you're in north America, take heart that its not your fault! The American dating market is absolute garbage. What do you mean?
  - cultofmetatron 5y ago
    People can't handle truth and I'd rather not be downvoted to oblivion. Suffice to say, the american dating market is heavily geared towards attractive white men over 6 ft tall. They better also be a millionaire if you're in the bay area. I'd suggest traveling like I have to southeast Asia, Europe and latin America for extended periods of time and see for yourself.
    - Mezzie 5y ago
      > Suffice to say, the american dating market is heavily geared towards attractive white men over 6 ft tall. They better also be a millionaire if you're in the bay area. The lesbian dating market is a bit different. ;)
      - cultofmetatron 5y ago
        haha thats probably very true. I'd say don't give up!. travel as well, it'll enrich your life and make your more interesting to that special someone when you finally meet her. I wouldn't be surprised if you meet her in your travels.

vintermann 5y ago

Yeah. I'm off the "market" for 15+ years, but I really worry when I read about normal-seeming 20 year olds (or even younger) who met their partners on Tinder. It's something that's going to affect young people whether they take part in it themselves or not. Ruthless markets in relationships probably aren't going to make them happy.

yosito 5y ago

> my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps I understand why so many people believe this. But pro tip: if you want to opt out of dating apps, the key is to learn the skill of asking for what you want. Ask the cute person at the coffee shop if you can have their number. Ask the person who's number you got out for a date. Ask the person you're on a date with if they want to kiss, etc. There is an art to successfully asking for things, and you have to get comfortable with people sometimes saying no, but the key really is that simple: just ask! It's actually easier in real life to get a date with someone you find interesting, because you're not limited by who the algorithm decides to show your profile to, you're only limited by your willingness to ask.

kenneth 5y ago

Haha, this is ridiculous. Picking up dates in real life is not only still completely doable, but probably easier these days due to the sheer lack of competition from men who just have no idea how to do it.

drevil-v2 5y ago
My thoughts exactly. It’s like some of these people have never gone out on weekends or even had a chat with a woman randomly at the gym, supermarket, at cafe, out for a walk. What’s the problem? Just say hi and be normal. If she doesn’t seem interested, smile and move on!