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I think you're missing the point. The question is not whether you can appreciate someone's physical characteristics. The question is whether you should apprec

I think you're missing the point. The question is not whether you can appreciate someone's physical characteristics. The question is whether you should appreciate someone's physical characteristics first, foremost, and most importantly above all of their other characteristics. The fact that there is a general rise in anorexia nervosa amongst all genders, is not to say that men in American society suffer equally with women (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa#Epidemiology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa#Epidemiology ). More over, the notion that complimenting someone on their appearance will some how coax them out of a psychiatric disorder is naïve at the very least, and destructively ignorant at worst. Anorexia nervosa is about appearance. If you give an anorexic any indication about their physical appearance you are reinforcing their condition. Complements are taken as an indication that starving themselves (or purging in the case of bulimics) works, and that they must continue the behavior to continue to receive complements. Attempts to inform them that they look unattractive (even if it's due to the fact that they're starving themselves) will be taken as an indication that they have not sufficiently starved themselves into attractiveness. You can not logic a person out of an eating disorder. Psychiatric disorders can not be reasoned with, and attempting to do so really does just court disaster (would you attempt to reason with an alcoholic?). I sincerely urge you to read up on psychiatric disorders and the way that they are managed, it's a really challenging subject, and common wisdom about them is usually incorrect.

Tichy 15y ago
If you want to go there... I don't think psychiatric disorders are being caused by the media or by being told "you are pretty" too often when you are a child. By telling somebody they are pretty I am also not telling them that it's the "first, foremost, and most important above all of their other characteristics". You are creating a straw man here. Of course I don't think telling somebody they are pretty will cure their disorders. But it can make somebody's day nevertheless.
- knowtheory 15y ago
  /me grins You don't get off that lightly. I am not straw-manning your argument, and i was not the one to raise the issue of eating disorders. My point is that you are ignoring context. Telling someone that they are pretty is not just a one off event that you are offering to another person, to be held in a pristine platonic form. It is an event that takes place in the gestalt of their daily interactions, and more specifically within the context of their interactions with you (and/or people like you). Is a complement about their attractiveness the first thing that they are greeted with? Does their attractiveness have bearing on the social context at hand? (in a work context? in a bar? at a conference discussing technical issues?) > Of course I don't think telling somebody they are pretty will cure their disorders. Really? Cause this sure makes it sounds like you do. At the very least it makes you sound really insensitive to the causes of anorexia nervosa and the factors that go into reenforcing them: > Also, telling somebody they are pretty does NOT imply that you consider anorexic looks to be pretty. In fact, it might give that person a good feeling about herself which just might counter the urge to become anorexic.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    I don't know that much about anorexia, but I suspect it doesn't have to do anything with beauty ideals at all (case in point: anorexia does not look pretty). It is more about control issues (I suppose). I know it can hurt to feel ugly, though, so I don't think it is a bad thing to be reminded now and then that you are not ugly (at least not to everyone). About pretty little girls: I was taught in biology class that babies are actually born to look cute (it is called "Kindchenschema" in German, other mammals also have it). It is a natural reaction to want to care for cute little humans, and it makes sense for little humans to look cute. Sorry I did not understand how you are not creating a strawman. I think you are thinking way too much about all this. It seems important to me to act naturally with children to some extent, and not having to go through a endless mental checklist before reacting to them.
    - JonnieCache 15y ago
      Anorexia is absolutely about beauty ideals. Indeed you are right: anorexia does not look pretty; anorexia is about what the patient sees when they look in the mirror: it is a perceptual disorder in a sense. Regardless of the actual weight of the person in the mirror, the anorexic sees an overweight figure looking back at them. Bulimia is more about control, that's the one that involves purging. It usually coexists with anorexia in the same patient, and goes in cycles. The patient keeps undereating due to the distorted perception of their body size, until they become so underweight that even they cannot deny their problem. Then they begin overeating to compensate for this, and then they are racked by shame due to the overeating and start purging, and the whole awful cycle begins again. Anorexia is not a trivial teenage anxiety disorder, it has a survival rate of around 80%. A horrible business.

Tichy 15y ago

If you want to go there... I don't think psychiatric disorders are being caused by the media or by being told "you are pretty" too often when you are a child. By telling somebody they are pretty I am also not telling them that it's the "first, foremost, and most important above all of their other characteristics". You are creating a straw man here. Of course I don't think telling somebody they are pretty will cure their disorders. But it can make somebody's day nevertheless.

knowtheory 15y ago
/me grins You don't get off that lightly. I am not straw-manning your argument, and i was not the one to raise the issue of eating disorders. My point is that you are ignoring context. Telling someone that they are pretty is not just a one off event that you are offering to another person, to be held in a pristine platonic form. It is an event that takes place in the gestalt of their daily interactions, and more specifically within the context of their interactions with you (and/or people like you). Is a complement about their attractiveness the first thing that they are greeted with? Does their attractiveness have bearing on the social context at hand? (in a work context? in a bar? at a conference discussing technical issues?) > Of course I don't think telling somebody they are pretty will cure their disorders. Really? Cause this sure makes it sounds like you do. At the very least it makes you sound really insensitive to the causes of anorexia nervosa and the factors that go into reenforcing them: > Also, telling somebody they are pretty does NOT imply that you consider anorexic looks to be pretty. In fact, it might give that person a good feeling about herself which just might counter the urge to become anorexic.
- Tichy 15y ago
  I don't know that much about anorexia, but I suspect it doesn't have to do anything with beauty ideals at all (case in point: anorexia does not look pretty). It is more about control issues (I suppose). I know it can hurt to feel ugly, though, so I don't think it is a bad thing to be reminded now and then that you are not ugly (at least not to everyone). About pretty little girls: I was taught in biology class that babies are actually born to look cute (it is called "Kindchenschema" in German, other mammals also have it). It is a natural reaction to want to care for cute little humans, and it makes sense for little humans to look cute. Sorry I did not understand how you are not creating a strawman. I think you are thinking way too much about all this. It seems important to me to act naturally with children to some extent, and not having to go through a endless mental checklist before reacting to them.
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    Anorexia is absolutely about beauty ideals. Indeed you are right: anorexia does not look pretty; anorexia is about what the patient sees when they look in the mirror: it is a perceptual disorder in a sense. Regardless of the actual weight of the person in the mirror, the anorexic sees an overweight figure looking back at them. Bulimia is more about control, that's the one that involves purging. It usually coexists with anorexia in the same patient, and goes in cycles. The patient keeps undereating due to the distorted perception of their body size, until they become so underweight that even they cannot deny their problem. Then they begin overeating to compensate for this, and then they are racked by shame due to the overeating and start purging, and the whole awful cycle begins again. Anorexia is not a trivial teenage anxiety disorder, it has a survival rate of around 80%. A horrible business.