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The comparison to oil isn't quite fair to oil. Oil has a lot of negative side effects, to be clear, but the benefits to society from the use of oil include pret

• LatteLazy 5y ago
  I'm not sure whether crypto is a good or bad thing overall but there are plenty of good uses for it: * In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now). I was in Zim back in 2010 and visited someone's house. It was filled with petrol because he had been paid and had to spend the money before it lost its value so he bought what was available. Bitcoin would have been a lot safer and less likely to cause shortages of goods (and more inflation). * They offer a much cheaper and simpler way to move money between countries both for ordinary people and small businesses. * By making online retail anonymous they've allowed the circumvention of all sorts of prohibitions. Sometimes that might be a bad thing, but I think it's a part of the reason we've seen weed legalised in so many US states. And remember: we don't ban things because you or I don't see the point. If someone else thinks they see a point, and they're not hurting anyone, they have every right to pursue what interests them
  • jdub 5y ago
    Climate-destroying techno-libertarian accelerationists will hurt everyone.
  • jmull 5y ago
    > we don't ban things because you or I don't see the point We do see the point, though: to scam people out of money.
    • DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
      Then let's ban gift cards first, because those get used for scamming as well and I don't really see the point in them in the first place, other than making money.
      • jmull 5y ago
        Gift cards have mainly legitimate uses. Here it's different: The main point is to scam people out of money.
  • yosito 5y ago
    > In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now) Also, Cuba and Argentina. While Bitcoin may be more accessible to people in these countries, they could also store value in USD, or other stable assets. > By making online retail anonymous I really don't understand the persistent myth that blockchains are anonymous.
    • LatteLazy 5y ago
      Blockchain is anonymous if you use it correctly I believe (don't reuse wallets, launder you coins etc) but you're right that the vast majority of people don't do that as far as I'm aware. Full disclosure: I've never actually done it either and I'm no expert...
      • tonfreed 5y ago
        The big ones like Bitcoin are pseudonymous. If you know someone's wallet you can see their entire history on the ledger. Private coins like Monero are different, and transactions can only be ascertained if you're one of the parties involved.
    • BurningPenguin 5y ago
      Bitcoin isn't, but there are alternatives that are. Like Monero. It just doesn't get as much hype.
    • akemichan 5y ago
      In Argentina you can only buy 200 USD per month and even that isn't guaranteed, you have to make appointments with banks in a lot of places. And even if you get them, you can't use them outside of the country because such payments are mostly blocked. You can pay online services or internatioal shippings by converting to crypto first and trade it with a foreigner to deposit USD in a foreign bank account, and then make the actual payment.
    • DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
      > I really don't understand the persistent myth that blockchains are anonymous. They are, at least in principle. Sure, if you pay for something and have it delivered to your home, someone now knows the address linked to the wallet you used; do this a lot, and the chances increase that this link will end up in the wrong databases. But that doesn't mean bitcoin & co. aren't, at least on their own, fairly anonymous.
  • skohan 5y ago
    It might be worth noting that the wild volatility of cryptocurrencies hurts all of these use-cases.
    • thereyet 5y ago
    • LatteLazy 5y ago
      That is a very fair criticism.
  • luma 5y ago
    * Bitcoin is and has been available in countries where there are currency problems and it has yet to solve any of them. This canard has been trotted out for over a decade, there have been plenty of chances to demonstrate this notion, and none of them have panned out. When do we stop flogging this obviously-false excuse? * Transaction fees and exchange rates into and out of the crypto economy make transferring money in bitcoin incredibly expensive. Also, slow. * What part of bitcoin is anonymous exactly?
    • tarboreus 5y ago
      The part where you identity is linked to the wallet can be anonymous. The transactions are public, but if your identity is unlinked, that only matters so much.
      • fsflover 5y ago
        This is called "pseudonymous", not "anonymous".
        • tarboreus 5y ago
          I mean, an digital account will always have an identifier. If having a number associated with the wallet makes it only pseudonymous rather than anonymous, then fine, though it seems like a trivial distinction. The upshot is that it can be private, though you need to do things in a certain way.
    • DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
      * Who ever claimed bitcoin would fix the problems with a currency? The point is that it gives people an alternative to those broken currencies. * Yes, but same goes for many other services. Transferring value is always a costly process unless you're using cash. * Pretty much all of it. Are we even talking about the same thing when we say "Bitcoin"? Because it sure seems like you're thinking of something completely different.
      • luma 5y ago
  • naruvimama 5y ago
    * It is a store of nothing, in fact it is drain of enormous amounts of electricity and computational power. * I wish it were cheaper or simpler, it was true in its early days but not anymore once there is speculation & "store of value" * I agree that some countries like Venezuela can benefit. In a pure capitalist society one still has to risk their money to buy shares at the minimum. In the case of Bitcoin one only has to sit on it and wait for Venezuelan assets to come and back it up. Poor Venezuelans are are going to part with their assets to make some speculator rich, let us not forget the other unsavoury type who most need anonymity. * There is a very high chance that major countries are going to bar private crypto being backed by regulated institutions like banks.
    • thereyet 5y ago
  • piva00 5y ago
    > * In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now). I was in Zim back in 2010 and visited someone's house. It was filled with petrol because he had been paid and had to spend the money before it lost its value so he bought what was available. Bitcoin would have been a lot safer and less likely to cause shortages of goods (and more inflation). It'd only be true if Bitcoin was actually stable and a store of value. At the moment is a highly speculative and volatile asset, fueled by a mania, not a stable supply of value and liquidity. It's liquid until the next big crash, for people who actually depend on having a stable store of value for their survival, a crash of 20% in a day can be devastating, less than a crash of their own currency but still not stable enough to warrant it as a safe way to park money. Just buy USD or another powerful currency, if one of these currencies crash to the point where it's mostly worthless then humanity has a much, much larger problem and having some bucks saved somewhere won't really help you. And yes, even in Venezuela, Argentina, Cuba, etc., there is a black/grey market for other currencies, it will be more expensive than the official exchange rate (if those are manipulated by the government) but is still doable, even more given the technical knowledge required to properly use cryptocurrencies, it's easier for the general population to hoard cash in a better currency. > * They offer a much cheaper and simpler way to move money between countries both for ordinary people and small businesses. Much cheaper? TX costs are really high, the solution to this has only been talked about and implemented as Proof of Concepts. The solution is either a L2 network (I've been hearing about Lightning as "the next big thing" for almost half a decade now) or moving away from proof-of-work to proof-of-stake, this move has been much harder and slower than any proponent of it has publically pitched. Small businesses are not sophisticated enough to be able to hedge against huge price fluctuations such as the ones cryptocurrencies experience, small businesses relying on crypto at this time would be just a major risk to themselves, with the only benefit being "it's fast to move money abroad". Very few small businesses really care about moving money as fast as possible across international borders with no legal checks, usually they are illegal businesses. > * By making online retail anonymous they've allowed the circumvention of all sorts of prohibitions. Sometimes that might be a bad thing, but I think it's a part of the reason we've seen weed legalised in so many US states. Quite a libertarian take that anything should be free of controls. I agree that governments seem to be getting more draconian lately in the West, at the same time protections against prohibitions will mostly fuel and incentivise exactly the behaviour that was prohibited (financial scams, anyone? or drug trade?), enabling that without discussing the merits of such prohibitions is just inviting and incentivising the worst kind of behaviours, the ones most prohibited and more taboo. I would like to know where are you drawing the parallel of weed being legalised to cryptocurrencies, I don't remember seeing anywhere an explanation of this link and I believe it's wishful thinking from your part. > And remember: we don't ban things because you or I don't see the point. If someone else thinks they see a point, and they're not hurting anyone, they have every right to pursue what interests them. Just the sheer amount of electricity being consumed to run this system is hurting societies, energy is probably the single most valuable resource for modern societies, spending it so some people can play around to inflate some numbers is a huge waste, even more if energy is coming from fossil sources.
  • akemichan 5y ago
    I don't get why this is being downvoted. Living in an unstable third world country I know these points are true. There's less and less jobs, the few there are offer miserable wages(less than 3000k/year), and crypto is pretty much the only way to get paid working remotely for other countries as freelancer or contractor. If you go the official route(only around 5% of workers do it even locally anyways) then more than half of your money is confiscated by the state and forced to convert to a local currency that's worth nothing two months down the road due to high inflation rates. It doesn't seem like people in stable countries understand what it's like to live in places like this so I guess it's no wonder all they see is a bunch of "crypto bros" making money.
• captainmuon 5y ago
  You have to distinguish between absolute benefits, and benefits in our current society. I also think absolute or real benefits are very slim, but there are certain motivations for it today: In our current society, one "benefit" is that you can use it to buy drugs anonymously. I would argue for some soft drugs like cannabis, that is a good thing. But even better to just legalize it - then you can get the benefits of regulation (harder for people to slide into heavier drugs, you have a bit more control over consumption, you can tax it...). Another benefit is that you could take your money that you earn in your day job and funnel it into activism. In many countries, there are a lot of scary political developments, combined with a growing surveillance state. Crypto can help that you are not cut off critical resources if you are a dissident. Finally, I wouldn't dismiss the aspect that it promises you to "get rich quickly". We have a very stratified society, where most people are individual laborers, and only a few are successful entrepreneurs and employers. Yes, in silicon valley you can earn a lot even as an IC, and there are many stories of successful founders. But to be honest, the way to the financial elite, the "ruling class", is barred for 99% of people, even for the most talented. A lot of people in tech probably find this unjust, and I can really relate to this feeling. But most would never question the system as a whole. Instead of trying to completely change society, we look for a literal hack or cheat, and crypto is this hack. It is the nerds' revenge, and we phantasize it will allow us to get what is our due.