6 ms·

I have no hope anymore. It won't get better. If people want 500 zł monthly and are willing to sell themselves and the country for that - let them...

jacquesm 5y ago
That's nice in theory but when you are personally dragged down right along with them then that it becomes a very practical problem.
- odiroot 5y ago
  Many Poles already left, many still will. It's a never ending brain drain since 2004.
  - xchaotic 5y ago
    where do you go to? Brexit Britain or MAGA Murica? Running away is not a good, long term solution.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      It's not so much running away as much as it is wanting to create a better life for yourself and your family. There are many more options than the UK or the USA, Polish immigrants can be found all over Europe.
    - Claude_Shannon 5y ago
      most commonly now - Germany, if you're able to - Canada, if you don't have valuable skills - Netherlands. That being said... if you have a good job, like in IT, you're better off remaining in Poland. You just have to grit your teeth.
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    the only Polish citizen I know, went to England for work as a young man, worked hard for giant companies, got remote work and started his family in Poland. I have no updates but I thought he had a very decent house now in Poland, and was doing well with remote C++ work.
- bjelkeman-again 5y ago
  It has a big impact on the EU as well when an EU country start flouting the EU laws.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    Apparently not, because the EU doesn't seem to be up for enforcing them.
    - bjelkeman-again 5y ago
      I think they want to, but they seem to doubt the tools they have for enforcement. I suspect some of the COVID funds will be held back. Edit: Actually they have already frozen 35 bn Euro. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/22/brussels-launches-legal-action-over-polish-rulings-against-eu-law https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/22/brussels-launc...
trasz 5y ago
Well, look at it this way: how bad it must have been for those people to prefer the 500zł instead? I'd say that's what the previous government missed completely: that the old state of affairs simply didn't work for many people.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bitcharmer 5y ago
  It still doesn't work as all those social programs are unsustainable from fiscal viewpoint. It's all financed by debt and inflation.
  - trasz 5y ago
    Not true. In fact, those programs are only barely more expensive than "podatek liniowy", which got introduced decades ago and which is essentially a subsidy for the wealthy for being wealthy.
    - bitcharmer 5y ago
      Care to explain the reason behind currently skyrocketing inflation and PLN devaluation then?
      - trasz 5y ago
        https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/inflation-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/inflation-rate. Also, while it's kind of hard to say for sure how Poland is doing, and while there definitely are some things that the current government is horrible at, it would be quite a stretch to say it's the "500+" program's fault. Especially given that "podatek liniowy" still exists.
      - lkrubner 5y ago
        Poland is able to keep its unemployment somewhat down, by keeping the zloty weak relative to the euro, and therefore helping Polish exports. And before anyone says "Poland has a lot of unemployment" compare it to other weak Eastern European countries on the euro. Poland could end inflation if it wanted higher unemployment, but for now it accepts the higher inflation and weaker zloty so as to help exports and so limit how bad unemployment might get.
tata71 5y ago
What happens when the whole western world is on that?

jacquesm 5y ago

That's nice in theory but when you are personally dragged down right along with them then that it becomes a very practical problem.

odiroot 5y ago
Many Poles already left, many still will. It's a never ending brain drain since 2004.
- xchaotic 5y ago
  where do you go to? Brexit Britain or MAGA Murica? Running away is not a good, long term solution.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    It's not so much running away as much as it is wanting to create a better life for yourself and your family. There are many more options than the UK or the USA, Polish immigrants can be found all over Europe.
  - Claude_Shannon 5y ago
    most commonly now - Germany, if you're able to - Canada, if you don't have valuable skills - Netherlands. That being said... if you have a good job, like in IT, you're better off remaining in Poland. You just have to grit your teeth.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  the only Polish citizen I know, went to England for work as a young man, worked hard for giant companies, got remote work and started his family in Poland. I have no updates but I thought he had a very decent house now in Poland, and was doing well with remote C++ work.
bjelkeman-again 5y ago
It has a big impact on the EU as well when an EU country start flouting the EU laws.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  Apparently not, because the EU doesn't seem to be up for enforcing them.
  - bjelkeman-again 5y ago
    I think they want to, but they seem to doubt the tools they have for enforcement. I suspect some of the COVID funds will be held back. Edit: Actually they have already frozen 35 bn Euro. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/22/brussels-launches-legal-action-over-polish-rulings-against-eu-law https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/22/brussels-launc...

trasz 5y ago

Well, look at it this way: how bad it must have been for those people to prefer the 500zł instead? I'd say that's what the previous government missed completely: that the old state of affairs simply didn't work for many people.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bitcharmer 5y ago
It still doesn't work as all those social programs are unsustainable from fiscal viewpoint. It's all financed by debt and inflation.
- trasz 5y ago
  Not true. In fact, those programs are only barely more expensive than "podatek liniowy", which got introduced decades ago and which is essentially a subsidy for the wealthy for being wealthy.
  - bitcharmer 5y ago
    Care to explain the reason behind currently skyrocketing inflation and PLN devaluation then?
    - trasz 5y ago
      https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/inflation-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/inflation-rate. Also, while it's kind of hard to say for sure how Poland is doing, and while there definitely are some things that the current government is horrible at, it would be quite a stretch to say it's the "500+" program's fault. Especially given that "podatek liniowy" still exists.
    - lkrubner 5y ago
      Poland is able to keep its unemployment somewhat down, by keeping the zloty weak relative to the euro, and therefore helping Polish exports. And before anyone says "Poland has a lot of unemployment" compare it to other weak Eastern European countries on the euro. Poland could end inflation if it wanted higher unemployment, but for now it accepts the higher inflation and weaker zloty so as to help exports and so limit how bad unemployment might get.

tata71 5y ago

What happens when the whole western world is on that?