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Before you claimed that Universal Paperclips was not good while you were away from the computer, which makes it a dubious idle game. Also, Wikipedia defines in

by the_af 5y ago

Before you claimed that Universal Paperclips was not good while you were away from the computer, which makes it a dubious idle game. Also, Wikipedia defines incremental games as a synonym for "clicker" games. Factorio is definitely not a "clicker" game, unless you define clicker broadly as "you use the mouse to click", which would make StarCraft and point and click adventures such as Day of the Tentacle also clicker games. I find it harder and harder to understand your point. At this stage, wouldn't it be easier to just admit Factorio and Universal Paperclips have very little in common, and that Factorio isn't an idle game, instead of sticking to your guns?

dragontamer 5y ago
> Also, Wikipedia defines incremental games as a synonym for "clicker" games. Factorio is definitely not a "clicker" game, unless you define clicker broadly as "you use the mouse to click", which would make StarCraft and point and click adventures such as Day of the Tentacle also clicker games. Not really. > In an incremental game, players perform simple actions – usually clicking a button – which rewards the player with currency. The player may spend the currency to purchase items or abilities that allow the player to earn the currency faster or automatically, without needing to perform the initial action.[3][4] A common theme is offering the player sources of income displayed as buildings such as factories or farms. These sources increase the currency production rate, but higher tier sources usually have an exponentially higher cost, so upgrading between tiers takes usually about the same time or even increasingly longer. > This mechanism offers a low-pressure experience (one does not have to be constantly playing), no loss condition, and constant growth and feedback, which is ideal for social or mobile play patterns, and often result in a very high player retention.[5] It often relies on exponential growth (or perhaps high-degree polynomial growth), which is countered by diminishing returns. This absolutely describes "Peaceful Mode" Factorio, 100%. Biters don't exist, no loss condition exists, and you have constant exponential growth as the "inventions" and "research" of the game cause your numbers to almost automatically go higher and higher. ------ > The rapid growth of cost, power and rewards is what makes incremental games fun and satisfying.[5] They often incorporate very large numbers in their calculation of rewards/power, either using scientific notations (1x1034), shorthands (1M, 1T, etc.), shorthand (1a, 1b, 1aa, 1ab), or invented words (e.g. "duoquadragintillion"), which sometimes make recording high scores a problem for the server.[5] Neither Starcraft nor Day of the Tentacle involve large numbers. Starcraft caps-off at 200 units, a rather small number. Day of the Tentacle has no growth at all. Factorio is about pushing your numbers bigger and bigger. You need well over 1-million ore to launch the rocket, and many players opt to build Megabases that launch a rocket-per-minute. Factorio absolutely starts on the small scale where you're counting your ore one at a time (yellow belts are very expensive in the early game, because you don't have much production yet). But it doesn't take long to grow your factory to the point where you're processing thousands-of-ore per minute. You grow from thousands-to-10s of thousands, then hundreds of thousands as a prerequisite for launching the rocket. ------- Its the fact that you start off by right-clicking on trees in Factorio that makes it a clicker / idle game. Factorio is horribly tedious unless you "do it correctly". Same thing with clicker/idle games. You have a tedious start, to show how hard some representative action is (ie: make a cookie, make a paperclip, or in Factorio: mine an ore by right-clicking). But very quickly, you build an automatic machine that does it for you, auto-clippers in Universal Paperclips, or an electric-mining machine in Factorio.
- the_af 5y ago
  Color me unconvinced. I guess if you think Universal Paperclips and Factorio are similar enough to be considered idle games, we will never see eye to eye. I also don't think a lot of people are going to agree with you either, making your broader definition less useful -- i.e. useful only to you. But hey, whatever floats your boat. Or clicks your boat ;)

by the_af 5y ago

dragontamer 5y ago

> Also, Wikipedia defines incremental games as a synonym for "clicker" games. Factorio is definitely not a "clicker" game, unless you define clicker broadly as "you use the mouse to click", which would make StarCraft and point and click adventures such as Day of the Tentacle also clicker games. Not really. > In an incremental game, players perform simple actions – usually clicking a button – which rewards the player with currency. The player may spend the currency to purchase items or abilities that allow the player to earn the currency faster or automatically, without needing to perform the initial action.[3][4] A common theme is offering the player sources of income displayed as buildings such as factories or farms. These sources increase the currency production rate, but higher tier sources usually have an exponentially higher cost, so upgrading between tiers takes usually about the same time or even increasingly longer. > This mechanism offers a low-pressure experience (one does not have to be constantly playing), no loss condition, and constant growth and feedback, which is ideal for social or mobile play patterns, and often result in a very high player retention.[5] It often relies on exponential growth (or perhaps high-degree polynomial growth), which is countered by diminishing returns. This absolutely describes "Peaceful Mode" Factorio, 100%. Biters don't exist, no loss condition exists, and you have constant exponential growth as the "inventions" and "research" of the game cause your numbers to almost automatically go higher and higher. ------ > The rapid growth of cost, power and rewards is what makes incremental games fun and satisfying.[5] They often incorporate very large numbers in their calculation of rewards/power, either using scientific notations (1x1034), shorthands (1M, 1T, etc.), shorthand (1a, 1b, 1aa, 1ab), or invented words (e.g. "duoquadragintillion"), which sometimes make recording high scores a problem for the server.[5] Neither Starcraft nor Day of the Tentacle involve large numbers. Starcraft caps-off at 200 units, a rather small number. Day of the Tentacle has no growth at all. Factorio is about pushing your numbers bigger and bigger. You need well over 1-million ore to launch the rocket, and many players opt to build Megabases that launch a rocket-per-minute. Factorio absolutely starts on the small scale where you're counting your ore one at a time (yellow belts are very expensive in the early game, because you don't have much production yet). But it doesn't take long to grow your factory to the point where you're processing thousands-of-ore per minute. You grow from thousands-to-10s of thousands, then hundreds of thousands as a prerequisite for launching the rocket. ------- Its the fact that you start off by right-clicking on trees in Factorio that makes it a clicker / idle game. Factorio is horribly tedious unless you "do it correctly". Same thing with clicker/idle games. You have a tedious start, to show how hard some representative action is (ie: make a cookie, make a paperclip, or in Factorio: mine an ore by right-clicking). But very quickly, you build an automatic machine that does it for you, auto-clippers in Universal Paperclips, or an electric-mining machine in Factorio.

the_af 5y ago
Color me unconvinced. I guess if you think Universal Paperclips and Factorio are similar enough to be considered idle games, we will never see eye to eye. I also don't think a lot of people are going to agree with you either, making your broader definition less useful -- i.e. useful only to you. But hey, whatever floats your boat. Or clicks your boat ;)