5 ms·

It's the multiplayer games that use anti-cheats that are the problem at the moment, as far as I can tell.

by dmos62 5y ago

bitwize 5y ago
Live in the pod, eat the bugs, load the anticheat kernel module. Or don't play the game at all. Viability of Linux as a game platform means that sooner or later, most of the shitty things about gaming on Windows (root-your-box anticheat, root-your-box DRM, a million shitty storefronts) will come to Linux because they're table stakes for the publishers' business model and without them the games simply won't get ported.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > and without them the games simply won't get ported. The actual effort required to port games these days is relatively small. The major engines like Unity and Unreal Engine make it a breeze to release games across all currently used major platforms.
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    >The major engines like Unity and Unreal Engine make it a breeze to release games across all currently used major platforms. Maybe for popular platforms, but their Linux support has been lacking to say the least.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    I don't think you're understanding the argument. Without the anticheat and DRM rootkits the AAA studios won't produce a Linux version because they believe their business models depend on those components.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      Sadly, at least for anticheat, they might as well be right with that opinion.
      - rbanffy 5y ago
        And this, kids, is why Linux users can't have nice things.
  - ThatPlayer 5y ago
    Plenty of middleware don't get ported. As an example off the top of my head, Vivox: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/qpau0z/first_class_trouble_on_linux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/qpau0z/first_... https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/after-suggesting-a-developer-drop-linux-support-vivox-have-released-a-statement.14046/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/after-suggesting-a-de...
  - MegaDeKay 5y ago
    And this is what makes me crazy about Epic: Unreal is their engine, they've said in the past that they "love Linux", and yet they don't port their games to Linux.
    - kevingadd 5y ago
      Sounds like they don't love spending multiple person-years on ports + maintenance to expand their userbase by 1-3%. At their scale of operation I can understand it, even if I personally ship Linux game ports. Once they sell a Linux user a copy of <game> for $60 they have to keep supporting it.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  There are plenty of games that have no DRM or invasive anti-cheat. They’re not AAA titles, but there’s no shortage.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  Anti-cheat is really only a problem for the big multiplayer games. But it’s a huge problem. Cheats are big business for the top multiplayer games. My gaming friends and I simply stop playing for a while when new cheats come out and run rampant because losing to cheaters every other round gets old fast. I understand why developers have to do something about it. If a Linux version was released and deemed easier to cheat with, scores of cheaters would be installing Ubuntu that night just to start cheating. This is why I don’t see Linux versions of AAA multiplayer games coming any time soon.
  - zinekeller 5y ago
    Very good on summarizing the problem. No, it's not sales, it's because some people are outright horrible and will do anything in their power to get those imaginary trophies. If someone has a decent solution on this that doesn't rely on client-side DRM, I'll (and many, many others) would gladly hear your solution, as long as it's actually workable and not "ban them" (everyone tried that but it's easy to evade) or "actually, give your personal info" (I think everyone will agree this is worse than most DRM solutions).
    - User23 5y ago
      > I think everyone will agree this is worse than most DRM solutions You think wrong. A social credit score system is odious for real life, because the only way not to play is to die. On the other hand if you ruin your gaming reputation as a cheater and nobody wants to play with you, well that's on you. Playing CoD or whatever isn't a human right. It's also ethically acceptable because it would be purely opt-in. Cheaters and others who don't want to provide proof of identity are welcome to play with other players who don't care about cheating. Rooting my computer is a far greater violation of my autonomy than asking me to prove who I am.
  - ajvs 5y ago
    I'd like to see games integrate a "trust score" mechanism where known configurations like immutable distros e.g. Fedora Silverblue, cloud gaming platforms and consoles don't have to run a client-side anti-cheat at all because they already are using known, unlikely to be hacked configurations. This way competitive gamers can opt for more restrictive platforms to play games from, but then don't have to install a rootkit.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  Who cares about them running code as root. Modern day malware can do everything from userspace: autorun on startup, key logging, token / credential stealing, cryptomining, software installation, pop up ads, remote desktop / screenshots, recording mic / camera, getting your ip, DOSing a sever, acting as a proxy, replacing sudo with one that steals your password, popping up fake password prompts, etc.
sebow 5y ago
The latest Proton experimental version really improved over this(talking about battleye anticheat). However the game vendor still has to make a minor change in most cases.Usually nothing starts if the anticheat doesn't approve it, so in most cases right now games that use anti-cheat on steam don't work because of "normal reasons"(i.e not using some special graphics flags, use vulkan/etc) not because the anticheat itself.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  EAC has supported wine for years, but developers just never bother or do not want to enable it.
arendtio 5y ago
Currently, I use Geforce Now [1] to play games that have unsupported anti-cheat solutions. When I started, they didn't support Linux and you had to fake a ChromeOS user-agent, but nowadays you can simply use it with Chrome/Chromium. [1]: https://play.geforcenow.com https://play.geforcenow.com
- npteljes 5y ago
  How are the wait times? A year ago I tried the service when I discovered that Cyberpunk overheats my PC, and even with the paid tier, I had to wait in lines for 20-30 mins.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    I'm on the founders tier, play occasionally and have only had to wait once, while they had some maintenance in some DC a few weeks ago. I've had 2 complete crashes of the session though, which sucks because save files are synced when the session ends, so i just lost all my progress.
  - arendtio 5y ago
    Never had to wait so far (Founder tier). Maybe it is related to the game?
    - npteljes 5y ago
      I'm happy to hear that the wait times are nonexistent. It's a nice service for the occasional beefy game one doesn't have the computer for.
foresto 5y ago
Valve (with the help of kernel and Wine contributors) have been making great progress working with the anti-cheat vendors. BattlEye [1] and Easy Anti-Cheat [2] are already working on Proton. Each game's developer has to opt in to enable it. There's a community-maintained site tracking the status of each game. [3] [1] https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3104663180636096966 https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/31046... [2] https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-launches-anti-cheat-support-for-linux-mac-and-steam-deck https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-la... [3] https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/

It's the multiplayer games that use anti-cheats that are the problem at the moment, as far as I can tell.

by dmos62 5y ago

It's the multiplayer games that use anti-cheats that are the problem at the moment, as far as I can tell.

Live in the pod, eat the bugs, load the anticheat kernel module. Or don't play the game at all. Viability of Linux as a game platform means that sooner or later, most of the shitty things about gaming on Windows (root-your-box anticheat, root-your-box DRM, a million shitty storefronts) will come to Linux because they're table stakes for the publishers' business model and without them the games simply won't get ported.

mschuster91 5y ago
> and without them the games simply won't get ported. The actual effort required to port games these days is relatively small. The major engines like Unity and Unreal Engine make it a breeze to release games across all currently used major platforms.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  >The major engines like Unity and Unreal Engine make it a breeze to release games across all currently used major platforms. Maybe for popular platforms, but their Linux support has been lacking to say the least.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I don't think you're understanding the argument. Without the anticheat and DRM rootkits the AAA studios won't produce a Linux version because they believe their business models depend on those components.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Sadly, at least for anticheat, they might as well be right with that opinion.
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      And this, kids, is why Linux users can't have nice things.
- ThatPlayer 5y ago
  Plenty of middleware don't get ported. As an example off the top of my head, Vivox: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/qpau0z/first_class_trouble_on_linux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/qpau0z/first_... https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/after-suggesting-a-developer-drop-linux-support-vivox-have-released-a-statement.14046/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/after-suggesting-a-de...
- MegaDeKay 5y ago
  And this is what makes me crazy about Epic: Unreal is their engine, they've said in the past that they "love Linux", and yet they don't port their games to Linux.
  - kevingadd 5y ago
    Sounds like they don't love spending multiple person-years on ports + maintenance to expand their userbase by 1-3%. At their scale of operation I can understand it, even if I personally ship Linux game ports. Once they sell a Linux user a copy of <game> for $60 they have to keep supporting it.
nkrisc 5y ago
There are plenty of games that have no DRM or invasive anti-cheat. They’re not AAA titles, but there’s no shortage.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Anti-cheat is really only a problem for the big multiplayer games. But it’s a huge problem. Cheats are big business for the top multiplayer games. My gaming friends and I simply stop playing for a while when new cheats come out and run rampant because losing to cheaters every other round gets old fast. I understand why developers have to do something about it. If a Linux version was released and deemed easier to cheat with, scores of cheaters would be installing Ubuntu that night just to start cheating. This is why I don’t see Linux versions of AAA multiplayer games coming any time soon.
- zinekeller 5y ago
  Very good on summarizing the problem. No, it's not sales, it's because some people are outright horrible and will do anything in their power to get those imaginary trophies. If someone has a decent solution on this that doesn't rely on client-side DRM, I'll (and many, many others) would gladly hear your solution, as long as it's actually workable and not "ban them" (everyone tried that but it's easy to evade) or "actually, give your personal info" (I think everyone will agree this is worse than most DRM solutions).
  - User23 5y ago
    > I think everyone will agree this is worse than most DRM solutions You think wrong. A social credit score system is odious for real life, because the only way not to play is to die. On the other hand if you ruin your gaming reputation as a cheater and nobody wants to play with you, well that's on you. Playing CoD or whatever isn't a human right. It's also ethically acceptable because it would be purely opt-in. Cheaters and others who don't want to provide proof of identity are welcome to play with other players who don't care about cheating. Rooting my computer is a far greater violation of my autonomy than asking me to prove who I am.
- ajvs 5y ago
  I'd like to see games integrate a "trust score" mechanism where known configurations like immutable distros e.g. Fedora Silverblue, cloud gaming platforms and consoles don't have to run a client-side anti-cheat at all because they already are using known, unlikely to be hacked configurations. This way competitive gamers can opt for more restrictive platforms to play games from, but then don't have to install a rootkit.
charcircuit 5y ago
Who cares about them running code as root. Modern day malware can do everything from userspace: autorun on startup, key logging, token / credential stealing, cryptomining, software installation, pop up ads, remote desktop / screenshots, recording mic / camera, getting your ip, DOSing a sever, acting as a proxy, replacing sudo with one that steals your password, popping up fake password prompts, etc.

sebow 5y ago

The latest Proton experimental version really improved over this(talking about battleye anticheat). However the game vendor still has to make a minor change in most cases.Usually nothing starts if the anticheat doesn't approve it, so in most cases right now games that use anti-cheat on steam don't work because of "normal reasons"(i.e not using some special graphics flags, use vulkan/etc) not because the anticheat itself.

charcircuit 5y ago
EAC has supported wine for years, but developers just never bother or do not want to enable it.

arendtio 5y ago

Currently, I use Geforce Now [1] to play games that have unsupported anti-cheat solutions. When I started, they didn't support Linux and you had to fake a ChromeOS user-agent, but nowadays you can simply use it with Chrome/Chromium. [1]: https://play.geforcenow.com https://play.geforcenow.com

npteljes 5y ago
How are the wait times? A year ago I tried the service when I discovered that Cyberpunk overheats my PC, and even with the paid tier, I had to wait in lines for 20-30 mins.
- sofixa 5y ago
  I'm on the founders tier, play occasionally and have only had to wait once, while they had some maintenance in some DC a few weeks ago. I've had 2 complete crashes of the session though, which sucks because save files are synced when the session ends, so i just lost all my progress.
- arendtio 5y ago
  Never had to wait so far (Founder tier). Maybe it is related to the game?
  - npteljes 5y ago
    I'm happy to hear that the wait times are nonexistent. It's a nice service for the occasional beefy game one doesn't have the computer for.

foresto 5y ago

Valve (with the help of kernel and Wine contributors) have been making great progress working with the anti-cheat vendors. BattlEye [1] and Easy Anti-Cheat [2] are already working on Proton. Each game's developer has to opt in to enable it. There's a community-maintained site tracking the status of each game. [3] [1] https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3104663180636096966 https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/31046... [2] https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-launches-anti-cheat-support-for-linux-mac-and-steam-deck https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-la... [3] https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/