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On the same subject, I only recently came to know that "Kraamzorg" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraamzorg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraamzorg) is not or h

On the same subject, I only recently came to know that "Kraamzorg" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraamzorg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraamzorg) is not or hardly offered in other countries. When you become parents (whether that is for the first or the nth time), a specialized nurse will visit your home for 24-80 hours spread over multiple days to help with anything required. If it's your first, she/he will mainly focus on teaching (how to bathe a baby, how to give breastfeeding etc.). If it's your second or more, the focus will be more on keeping the house tidy (vacuuming, cleaning up) and helping with the older kids (getting them from school etc.). And all the while, the kraamzorger will keep a log of the baby (weight, temperature, how often it poops and pees etc.) to make sure it's healthy. Seriously, I don't know how I would have handled having my first newborn without the hands-on-live-counseling kraamzorg provides.

InsomniacL 5y ago
Apparently in America it can cost tens of thousands of dollars to give birth in a hospital. Also, 'skin-on-skin' contact after giving birth is a chargeable extra. We don't know how fortunate we are here in the UK with the NHS.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
- zthrowaway 5y ago
  > Also, 'skin-on-skin' contact after giving birth is a chargeable extra. Just had a kid in the US, not true. I’m curious to see where you learned this from, it seems hyperbolic. Also, it cost me $2k after all was said and done.
  - ix101 5y ago
    https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37555048 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37555048
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bigie35 5y ago
    Had our first baby 18 months ago. While we weren't charged for skin-on-skin contact, we were charged when the nurse offered to take the baby to the nursey so that mom could rest and recuperate for a few hours. I can't remember how much it was, but I do remember being upset at the cost... Also, in terms of out of pocket expenses, I think it really depends on your insurance, hospital, and even the state you live in (here in the U.S.).
    - heyoni 5y ago
      I just had my first and the total came out to about $430,000 I think. Mom stayed for 4 days and the baby was in the NICU for a week mostly for observation but also had some extensive testing and a few rounds of antibiotics done preemptively. Out of pocket it cost me next to nothing since my deductible had already been met, but that’s what my insurance actually shelled out. In the end, mother and child were both healthy, so it was mostly done out of an abundance of caution since the mother delivered with a fever. I’m sure if I had no coverage I’d be able to negotiate that down but I’m also sure I’d be broke from it. After all is said and done though, there weren’t any bizarre line items like skin to skin.
  - zo1 5y ago
    Private Healthcare doesn't mean it has to be as bad as the stories portray it as being in the US, true or not. South African example: Pregnancy and birth including c-section were essentially "free" for us under our paid private Healthcare. Also included hands-on nurses and assistance for 2-4 days while the mother was resting in hospital. Forgot to mention, the c-section had an anaesthetician and gynocoligst in the operating room.
  - Icathian 5y ago
    My kid was born in early 2020, I paid even less and also wasn't charged for holding her. Not sure why you're being downvoted for providing actual facts.
  - fastasucan 5y ago
    I cant imagine having to pay that much. Wow.
  - palijer 5y ago
    Cost my friends who didn't have personal health insurance $5 because they paid for parking. Live in Canada though, $2k seems insane with all the other expenses of a new baby and starting a family.
- mmarq 5y ago
  I had a child relatively recently in the UK, and we had to pay for many visits and scans that anywhere else in Europe would have been free. For instance you never see a gynaecologist unless something very very bad is going on. If you want the same level of care you would receive in Italy or Germany, you end up spending 2-3K£. Probably better than the US, but given the taxes we pay, I’d expect something more. I’d rather pay half the taxes I pay now and spend 10K£ to give birth, than paying 40K£ a year of income tax and get the level of service of a developing country.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Probably better than the US, but given the taxes we pay, I’d expect something more. I’d rather pay half the taxes I pay now and spend 10K£ to give birth UK tax burden is nowhere near double that of the US overall, so that's probably not a real choice.
lbreakjai 5y ago
We had our first baby in June. We're expats, without any family around. Kraamzorg was a godsent. The nurse turned what's been a chaotic and frightening time for all of my acquaintances back home, into a blissful week. We'd take a long nap every afternoon, and wake up to a fresh bowl of fruit salad. We had such a peace of mind to know that we were being supervised and taught by a pro, and that we therefore could do no wrong. We were a bit skeptical about the Dutch system at first, but I really grew fond of their approach.
saiya-jin 5y ago
It is very much a standard post natal package in Switzerland, and in France too IIRC. We had tons of visits for the first one, quite helpful, spread over longer period. Only 1-2 for second one, but it could be more if needed. The only difference is that they don't do cleaning, at least ours didn't. They are called "sage-femme" in french (wise woman in literal translation). Most od advices were nothing new to my wife since she is a doctor, but even for her sometimes best practices brought something new and more efficient/safe. And of course regular basic checks on the baby are helpful without the need to visit doctor. We never paid anything extra, covered by health insurance.
- prmoustache 5y ago
  Have had 2 kids in the last decade in Switzerland and we only had a visit or two and it was mostly about providing councelling, not helping you in your daily task as a proper kraamzorgster. Keep in mind that these kinds of systems are not necessarily compatible with some cultures/usages. My gf has a friend who is leaving in the Netherlands and was getting crazy about having that krammzorgster around in the house all day long while her mother was already here for a few months. It looked like it isn't even optionnal and they couldn't just tell her to go elsewhere. They are mexicans.
8fingerlouie 5y ago
It's divided into two parts in Denmark, After birth of the first child, you're offered to stay at the hospital for a few days (unspecified duration, depending on issues being faced) to get help with getting breastfeeding going, diapers, and monitoring the babys health. After you get home, a nurse will schedule regular (weekly at first, then gradually longer between) visits to weigh/measure the child and record if the baby appears to be developing correctly, and provide advice in matters concerning childcare. This goes on for the first year.
noodlesUK 5y ago
I would not exist if my mother had been in the US or another location with private healthcare when she was pregnant with me. She had a tough pregnancy and had to take a significant amount of time off work and was on bedrest for approximately 3 months. During those ~3 months, she had a medical professional come to her home every day (her midwife and doctor alternated days). This would simply not be possible if healthcare were not free at the point of care as it is in the UK and many other countries. I don’t know much about the postnatal care, and I know things have gotten worse in the UK over the past decades, but I’m eternally grateful to the prenatal care that the NHS provided.
- Notanothertoo 5y ago
  This is not entirely unique situation. There is insurance for all of the above. It's just not everyone has access to it, but I'd wager if you don't then you like shouldn't be having kids.
cjrp 5y ago
Sounds sort of similar to a doula here in the UK, but they're not very common in my experience.
shard 5y ago
In Korea there are birthcare centers where mothers can go for two weeks to a month to rest and recuperate after delivering a baby, and nurses will care for the baby and teach the mothers how to care for the baby. Of course food, laundry etc are taken care of by the centers. Hospitals offer that service as well, but bed spaces are typically more limited in hospitals.
Fnoord 5y ago
Its fantastic, indeed. But you need to insure yourself if you want the costs to be reimbursed, and its never free to insure yourself outside the basisverzekering (basic insurance package, the mandatory default which has become less and less over the years). Our first one was due in February, second in September. Both came roughly on time. But you start your insurance package in December (before new year) so for second we had to pay ourselves cause was conceived in January, while first one was 7 months in so a very easy choice.

InsomniacL 5y ago

Apparently in America it can cost tens of thousands of dollars to give birth in a hospital. Also, 'skin-on-skin' contact after giving birth is a chargeable extra. We don't know how fortunate we are here in the UK with the NHS.

hellbannedguy 5y ago
zthrowaway 5y ago
> Also, 'skin-on-skin' contact after giving birth is a chargeable extra. Just had a kid in the US, not true. I’m curious to see where you learned this from, it seems hyperbolic. Also, it cost me $2k after all was said and done.
- ix101 5y ago
  https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37555048 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37555048
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bigie35 5y ago
  Had our first baby 18 months ago. While we weren't charged for skin-on-skin contact, we were charged when the nurse offered to take the baby to the nursey so that mom could rest and recuperate for a few hours. I can't remember how much it was, but I do remember being upset at the cost... Also, in terms of out of pocket expenses, I think it really depends on your insurance, hospital, and even the state you live in (here in the U.S.).
  - heyoni 5y ago
    I just had my first and the total came out to about $430,000 I think. Mom stayed for 4 days and the baby was in the NICU for a week mostly for observation but also had some extensive testing and a few rounds of antibiotics done preemptively. Out of pocket it cost me next to nothing since my deductible had already been met, but that’s what my insurance actually shelled out. In the end, mother and child were both healthy, so it was mostly done out of an abundance of caution since the mother delivered with a fever. I’m sure if I had no coverage I’d be able to negotiate that down but I’m also sure I’d be broke from it. After all is said and done though, there weren’t any bizarre line items like skin to skin.
- zo1 5y ago
  Private Healthcare doesn't mean it has to be as bad as the stories portray it as being in the US, true or not. South African example: Pregnancy and birth including c-section were essentially "free" for us under our paid private Healthcare. Also included hands-on nurses and assistance for 2-4 days while the mother was resting in hospital. Forgot to mention, the c-section had an anaesthetician and gynocoligst in the operating room.
- Icathian 5y ago
  My kid was born in early 2020, I paid even less and also wasn't charged for holding her. Not sure why you're being downvoted for providing actual facts.
- fastasucan 5y ago
  I cant imagine having to pay that much. Wow.
- palijer 5y ago
  Cost my friends who didn't have personal health insurance $5 because they paid for parking. Live in Canada though, $2k seems insane with all the other expenses of a new baby and starting a family.
mmarq 5y ago
I had a child relatively recently in the UK, and we had to pay for many visits and scans that anywhere else in Europe would have been free. For instance you never see a gynaecologist unless something very very bad is going on. If you want the same level of care you would receive in Italy or Germany, you end up spending 2-3K£. Probably better than the US, but given the taxes we pay, I’d expect something more. I’d rather pay half the taxes I pay now and spend 10K£ to give birth, than paying 40K£ a year of income tax and get the level of service of a developing country.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Probably better than the US, but given the taxes we pay, I’d expect something more. I’d rather pay half the taxes I pay now and spend 10K£ to give birth UK tax burden is nowhere near double that of the US overall, so that's probably not a real choice.

lbreakjai 5y ago

We had our first baby in June. We're expats, without any family around. Kraamzorg was a godsent. The nurse turned what's been a chaotic and frightening time for all of my acquaintances back home, into a blissful week. We'd take a long nap every afternoon, and wake up to a fresh bowl of fruit salad. We had such a peace of mind to know that we were being supervised and taught by a pro, and that we therefore could do no wrong. We were a bit skeptical about the Dutch system at first, but I really grew fond of their approach.

saiya-jin 5y ago

It is very much a standard post natal package in Switzerland, and in France too IIRC. We had tons of visits for the first one, quite helpful, spread over longer period. Only 1-2 for second one, but it could be more if needed. The only difference is that they don't do cleaning, at least ours didn't. They are called "sage-femme" in french (wise woman in literal translation). Most od advices were nothing new to my wife since she is a doctor, but even for her sometimes best practices brought something new and more efficient/safe. And of course regular basic checks on the baby are helpful without the need to visit doctor. We never paid anything extra, covered by health insurance.

prmoustache 5y ago
Have had 2 kids in the last decade in Switzerland and we only had a visit or two and it was mostly about providing councelling, not helping you in your daily task as a proper kraamzorgster. Keep in mind that these kinds of systems are not necessarily compatible with some cultures/usages. My gf has a friend who is leaving in the Netherlands and was getting crazy about having that krammzorgster around in the house all day long while her mother was already here for a few months. It looked like it isn't even optionnal and they couldn't just tell her to go elsewhere. They are mexicans.

8fingerlouie 5y ago

It's divided into two parts in Denmark, After birth of the first child, you're offered to stay at the hospital for a few days (unspecified duration, depending on issues being faced) to get help with getting breastfeeding going, diapers, and monitoring the babys health. After you get home, a nurse will schedule regular (weekly at first, then gradually longer between) visits to weigh/measure the child and record if the baby appears to be developing correctly, and provide advice in matters concerning childcare. This goes on for the first year.

noodlesUK 5y ago

I would not exist if my mother had been in the US or another location with private healthcare when she was pregnant with me. She had a tough pregnancy and had to take a significant amount of time off work and was on bedrest for approximately 3 months. During those ~3 months, she had a medical professional come to her home every day (her midwife and doctor alternated days). This would simply not be possible if healthcare were not free at the point of care as it is in the UK and many other countries. I don’t know much about the postnatal care, and I know things have gotten worse in the UK over the past decades, but I’m eternally grateful to the prenatal care that the NHS provided.

Notanothertoo 5y ago
This is not entirely unique situation. There is insurance for all of the above. It's just not everyone has access to it, but I'd wager if you don't then you like shouldn't be having kids.

cjrp 5y ago

Sounds sort of similar to a doula here in the UK, but they're not very common in my experience.

shard 5y ago

In Korea there are birthcare centers where mothers can go for two weeks to a month to rest and recuperate after delivering a baby, and nurses will care for the baby and teach the mothers how to care for the baby. Of course food, laundry etc are taken care of by the centers. Hospitals offer that service as well, but bed spaces are typically more limited in hospitals.

Fnoord 5y ago

Its fantastic, indeed. But you need to insure yourself if you want the costs to be reimbursed, and its never free to insure yourself outside the basisverzekering (basic insurance package, the mandatory default which has become less and less over the years). Our first one was due in February, second in September. Both came roughly on time. But you start your insurance package in December (before new year) so for second we had to pay ourselves cause was conceived in January, while first one was 7 months in so a very easy choice.