5 ms·

This reminds me of a story that I wish I could find again. It was in the Reader's Digest Young Peoples' Annual from sometime in the 60s. I read it in the 90s, s

by sgentle 15y ago

This reminds me of a story that I wish I could find again. It was in the Reader's Digest Young Peoples' Annual from sometime in the 60s. I read it in the 90s, so some of the advice ("don't go dutch too often") was truly perplexing, but this particular story was about a girl who played baseball. She always sat and watched the boys play baseball. One boy in particular caught her eye. He asked if she wanted to play and she jumped at the chance. She wanted to impress him, so she pitched the ball hard and fast. With each player she struck out, he seemed less and less happy. Finally, it came her turn to bat. By this point, he was hardly paying attention to her at all. She swung out. "Oops", she said, "I guess I'm not doing it right". His eyes perked up and he came over to talk to her. "You should hold the bat like this", he said, "and don't swing so hard". She smiled at him. She could bat just fine, of course, but it's important to have priorities. I wish I had a copy because I'd love to read it again. I suspect that the consequences of treating girls like pretty dolls, rather than the explorers, creators and leaders that they can be, will be felt for a while still; but I hope a few decades from now I get to read this article again and laugh at how things have changed.

127 15y ago
Human biology is not that quick to change. It demonstrates a large amount of hubris to even think it should be. Women marry up and across dominance hierarchies. Artificially boosting the career success of women just causes misery on the long run for men and for society. I thought that the girl in your story was very smart, and even if people had treated her like a pretty doll for her entire life she would still be the same. Intelligent, critical and capable.
- ordinary 15y ago
  What makes you think this is a purely biological issue?
  - Tichy 15y ago
    That I am not very attracted to dogs or cows is a small giveaway.
- justatdotin 15y ago
  hey, I hear you, bro: I can tell you from personal experience that it sure is ruff bein a rich white man in this day and age ...
  - 127 15y ago
    Harder than being a young and beautiful woman.
- vectorpush 15y ago
  >It demonstrates a large amount of hubris to even think it should be. So what? It's this same hubris which bucks against the biological directive to impregnate every fertile female that enters your field of vision. Since when do humans settle for the biological imperative?
  - 127 15y ago
    No, the force that bucks against the biological directive to impregnate every fertile female that enters your field of vision is the very real threat of violence and social ostracization. Plus, unless you're a total sociopath: empathy. Unlike some people would have you believe, being a man does not equal being a rapist.
    - vectorpush 15y ago
      Yes, a set of societal constructs so deeply embedded in the water supply that we take them for granted, similar to the topic at hand. There are places in the world where the crime of being raped is punishable by death. The culture we create does matter.
- pharrington 15y ago
  >Human biology is not that quick to change This implies that biology is why in most cultures men have higher status potential than women. Not only does this ignore lots of horribly obvious things, but in turn implies an understanding of how physiology affects behavior. Besides current science barely having a rough idea of some hormones' areas of effect (eg low testosterone levels having some positive or negative effect on aggression), we can't begin to aggregate how the average minute physical differences between men and women would affect something as high level as behavior. We're still learning the physical effects. Trying to reason beyond that is irrelevant at best. Meanwhile, centuries of oppression and concrete, prescribed gender roles seem alot more insightful.
  - marvin 15y ago
    Thanks for pointing this out. Everyone jumps at evolution whenever a discussion comes up about gender differences. There is probably an evolutionary component in there, but they way everyone declares "this is because in old times, men hunted lions while the women watched the children" to every gender stereotype is just ridiculous. When related to dating, I like to call this "The Mystery Method Theory of Sexual Evolution", because most of the pervasive explanations about why the sexual market works the way it does is copied straight from Neil Strauss' book "The Game". A lot of these ideas are taken to be truth even though there is absolutely no scientific research behind them.
    - Tichy 15y ago
      Well read Jared Diamonds "The Third Chimpanzee" or "Why Is Sex Fun" for some actual research on gender differences. That we don't know how Hormones affect us is pretty irrelevant in that context. There are other forces at play, hormones are just mechanisms for changing behaviors, not the force that shapes behaviors. It is also true, to some extent, what Steven Pinker says: "if I don't like what my genes want from me, they can go jump in the lake". But individuals acting against evolution does not change the big, global trend. In the long run those people die out - they might still have good lives, but not every lifestyle is sustainable at (web) scale.
  - Tichy 15y ago
- wgren 15y ago
  >Human biology is not that quick to change. No, but a lot of things with regards to our current expected behaviour of genders is in fact social, not biological. A lot of 18th century male behaviour would today be regarded as effeminate. Red was once the color of choice for baby boys, and blue for girls. >Artificially boosting the career success of women just causes misery on the long run for men Hang on, did anyone propose affirmative action here or something? All the blog talked about was trying to praise girls for their smarts rather than their looks. If this is enough to cause misery for you, I think you have self-esteem issues. (Edit: Oops, that was needlessly confrontational and personal. Apologies for last sentence.) >I thought that the girl in your story was very smart, and even if people had treated her like a pretty doll for her entire life she would still be the same. Intelligent, critical and capable. Perhaps, but as mentioned in the article, some girls as young as 5 think they are "too fat" and try to go on a diet. It is clearly an issue for some.
  - 127 15y ago
    >Hang on, did anyone propose affirmative action here or something? All the blog talked about was trying to praise girls for their smarts rather than their looks. If this is enough to cause misery for you, I think you have self-esteem issues. As the pool of eligible husbands diminishes, the pool of men who simply can't get a wife grows and the disparity between the lucky and unlucky men increases. I'm sure you can see how this can generate social friction inside a nation? I'm not making a moral statement either way here, just observing some forces that I believe do affect our lives.
    - wanorris 15y ago
      Wait, are you saying that we need to encourage women to be less capable because the career market is zero sum, and men need careers more than women? I'm very open to the idea that I misunderstood your statement, but if I have characterized it correctly, then the flaw in it is that careers are not zero sum, and having additional capable, productive people in a society creates more wealth for the society as a whole than would otherwise have existed. This creates more opportunities for men as well as women.
- pygy_ 15y ago
  > ... even if people had treated her like a pretty doll for her entire life she would still be the same. Intelligent, critical and capable. Intelligence withers if it isn't stimulated. The other traits are completely acquired. Education is not only about career, but about preventing stupidity at large. See [1], for example, keeping Poe's law[2] in mind. . [1] http://imgur.com/MVZ2h http://imgur.com/MVZ2h [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

by sgentle 15y ago

127 15y ago

Human biology is not that quick to change. It demonstrates a large amount of hubris to even think it should be. Women marry up and across dominance hierarchies. Artificially boosting the career success of women just causes misery on the long run for men and for society. I thought that the girl in your story was very smart, and even if people had treated her like a pretty doll for her entire life she would still be the same. Intelligent, critical and capable.

ordinary 15y ago
What makes you think this is a purely biological issue?
- Tichy 15y ago
  That I am not very attracted to dogs or cows is a small giveaway.
justatdotin 15y ago
hey, I hear you, bro: I can tell you from personal experience that it sure is ruff bein a rich white man in this day and age ...
- 127 15y ago
  Harder than being a young and beautiful woman.
vectorpush 15y ago
>It demonstrates a large amount of hubris to even think it should be. So what? It's this same hubris which bucks against the biological directive to impregnate every fertile female that enters your field of vision. Since when do humans settle for the biological imperative?
- 127 15y ago
  No, the force that bucks against the biological directive to impregnate every fertile female that enters your field of vision is the very real threat of violence and social ostracization. Plus, unless you're a total sociopath: empathy. Unlike some people would have you believe, being a man does not equal being a rapist.
  - vectorpush 15y ago
    Yes, a set of societal constructs so deeply embedded in the water supply that we take them for granted, similar to the topic at hand. There are places in the world where the crime of being raped is punishable by death. The culture we create does matter.
pharrington 15y ago
>Human biology is not that quick to change This implies that biology is why in most cultures men have higher status potential than women. Not only does this ignore lots of horribly obvious things, but in turn implies an understanding of how physiology affects behavior. Besides current science barely having a rough idea of some hormones' areas of effect (eg low testosterone levels having some positive or negative effect on aggression), we can't begin to aggregate how the average minute physical differences between men and women would affect something as high level as behavior. We're still learning the physical effects. Trying to reason beyond that is irrelevant at best. Meanwhile, centuries of oppression and concrete, prescribed gender roles seem alot more insightful.
- marvin 15y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out. Everyone jumps at evolution whenever a discussion comes up about gender differences. There is probably an evolutionary component in there, but they way everyone declares "this is because in old times, men hunted lions while the women watched the children" to every gender stereotype is just ridiculous. When related to dating, I like to call this "The Mystery Method Theory of Sexual Evolution", because most of the pervasive explanations about why the sexual market works the way it does is copied straight from Neil Strauss' book "The Game". A lot of these ideas are taken to be truth even though there is absolutely no scientific research behind them.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    Well read Jared Diamonds "The Third Chimpanzee" or "Why Is Sex Fun" for some actual research on gender differences. That we don't know how Hormones affect us is pretty irrelevant in that context. There are other forces at play, hormones are just mechanisms for changing behaviors, not the force that shapes behaviors. It is also true, to some extent, what Steven Pinker says: "if I don't like what my genes want from me, they can go jump in the lake". But individuals acting against evolution does not change the big, global trend. In the long run those people die out - they might still have good lives, but not every lifestyle is sustainable at (web) scale.
- Tichy 15y ago
wgren 15y ago
>Human biology is not that quick to change. No, but a lot of things with regards to our current expected behaviour of genders is in fact social, not biological. A lot of 18th century male behaviour would today be regarded as effeminate. Red was once the color of choice for baby boys, and blue for girls. >Artificially boosting the career success of women just causes misery on the long run for men Hang on, did anyone propose affirmative action here or something? All the blog talked about was trying to praise girls for their smarts rather than their looks. If this is enough to cause misery for you, I think you have self-esteem issues. (Edit: Oops, that was needlessly confrontational and personal. Apologies for last sentence.) >I thought that the girl in your story was very smart, and even if people had treated her like a pretty doll for her entire life she would still be the same. Intelligent, critical and capable. Perhaps, but as mentioned in the article, some girls as young as 5 think they are "too fat" and try to go on a diet. It is clearly an issue for some.
- 127 15y ago
  >Hang on, did anyone propose affirmative action here or something? All the blog talked about was trying to praise girls for their smarts rather than their looks. If this is enough to cause misery for you, I think you have self-esteem issues. As the pool of eligible husbands diminishes, the pool of men who simply can't get a wife grows and the disparity between the lucky and unlucky men increases. I'm sure you can see how this can generate social friction inside a nation? I'm not making a moral statement either way here, just observing some forces that I believe do affect our lives.
  - wanorris 15y ago
    Wait, are you saying that we need to encourage women to be less capable because the career market is zero sum, and men need careers more than women? I'm very open to the idea that I misunderstood your statement, but if I have characterized it correctly, then the flaw in it is that careers are not zero sum, and having additional capable, productive people in a society creates more wealth for the society as a whole than would otherwise have existed. This creates more opportunities for men as well as women.
pygy_ 15y ago
> ... even if people had treated her like a pretty doll for her entire life she would still be the same. Intelligent, critical and capable. Intelligence withers if it isn't stimulated. The other traits are completely acquired. Education is not only about career, but about preventing stupidity at large. See [1], for example, keeping Poe's law[2] in mind. . [1] http://imgur.com/MVZ2h http://imgur.com/MVZ2h [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]