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As a European, I've never really understood how Americans could actually not be utterly exhausted with two weeks of paid vacations. Or are working hours shorter

As a European, I've never really understood how Americans could actually not be utterly exhausted with two weeks of paid vacations. Or are working hours shorter? Or is it that most companies provide 4 or 5 weeks evenif the law mandates a lot less? I've been told by American friends that it wasn't as bad in practice since 'their companies gave them 3 weeks, and quite quickly 4, and it was actually pretty common' but it wasn't clear to me that it wasn't purely anecdotal/branch specific. If anyone knows, I'm quite interested!

MrLeap 5y ago
You get a few extra weeks between jobs when you quit or are fired ;D
quartesixte 5y ago
Some companies will offer either an annual increase in the number of paid vacation days based on seniority/time employed, a generous allowance from the start, or just the fabled "unlimited" vacation days. There are also all the national holidays that result in 3-day weekends, the week long vacation that is Thanksgiving for many workers, as well as Christmas shutdowns. It really varies on the industry/job-type, but the bare minimum two weeks of paid vacation can be found in many other places too. Something that gets missed a lot in these conversations is that hourly workers are often on a vacation accrual type system. Time worked = time vacation earned at a certain ratio. The more senior you become, the higher that ratio. This is anecdata, but I've seen guys be able to take a week-long vacation every three months without ever depleting their two week allowance because they have "refilled" their vacation time by that point. For job offers that can be negotiated prior to going in, it's been observed that some people might have completely, almost wildly, different vacation plans than what is standard because of what they negotiated at the offer-stage of their employment. That all being said, I'd rather much have just a simpler, 4-5 week standard across the board vacation law. Would cut the headache out of trying to figure out vacation accrual vs. usage ratios, play guessing games on exactly how unlimited that unlimited plan is, random gossip of that ONE guy at work who's on some different vacation plan because he strongarmed HR during hiring to get it, etc.
- mihaigalos 5y ago
  > There are also all the national holidays Yes, but other parts of the world have them as well. Most EU countries have >13, while US has 12, according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_public_holidays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of... Here in the EU, it is common to have >25d/y holiday. Some data I came across by living in multiple EU countries: * Austria 25d/y, 38.5h/w. * France: 25d/y, 35h/w * Germany: 30d/y, 40h/w.
  - quartesixte 5y ago
    Good point. I’ve lived in countries with more than the US as well and definitely think we should get more here. The work culture here also views vacations in a different way too. The number of people I’ve heard bemoaning our European counterparts for taking too many vacations is not a trivial number… “Man, I can’t even go 1 week without getting bored! Why are they always on vacation!” Maybe the US is just a nation run by workaholics enabled by workaholics beneath them trying to get there spot and everyone else cargo-culting or being browbeaten into being a workaholic.
zerocount 5y ago
American companies tend to give employees as little as possible. Two weeks vacation is 10 days and you may be on call on the last weekend of that. Then you might get a few sick days but it's never enough if you actually get sick with the flu or Covid. So, many of us have to go to work sick or use vacation days. Nobody wants to use vacation while sick, so other people at work get sick because we go to work sick. And then your vacation has to be approved. I had a manager who would only approve 1 week of vacation at a time. He said 2 weeks off is too long away from work. So, it varies from one company to another, but generally it's not good because there's too much bullshit involved.
- dustymcp 5y ago
  Wow just wow i feel with you guys, its amazingly sad for such a rich country..
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jawilson2 5y ago
    We're not a rich country, there are some rich individuals.
fallingfrog 5y ago
2 weeks paid vacation is a luxury reserved for those who have made it into an upper middle class office job- most blue collar jobs like restocking shelves offer no paid vacation at all, and many offer no maternity leave or health care either. You can always tell a working class person by their teeth, which by their late 30’s will have started falling out.
- nickd2001 5y ago
  "You can always tell a working class person by their teeth, which by their late 30’s will have started falling out." that seems to me a tragedy especially in such a rich country as USA. wonder if its lack of dental cover, or soft drinks , or bit of both? I remember as a kid at school when someone's baby tooth falls out and they bring it in, leave it in a glass of coke, and in frighteningly short time the whole thing is dissolved.
- Notanothertoo 5y ago
  You get 1/2 weeks paid at chic fila as a cashier. Grocery stores ie stocking shelves full time is also the same at nearly every chain. Tradesman have it better.
parkingrift 5y ago
2-4 weeks of vacation plus 7-10 days of holiday is common.
drewbug01 5y ago
> Or is it that most companies provide 4 or 5 weeks evenif the law mandates a lot less? American law doesn’t mandate any vacation leave.
nickd2001 5y ago
As a Brit who worked in US late 90s-early 00s , some things I noticed: (a) US was 40 hrs/wk, equiv to 3 weeks extra at work per year compared to UK's 37-37.5 standard hrs. (b) Plus sometimes "yeah, I'm also gonna need you to go ahead and come in at the weekend, m'kay", although you can simply refuse. What they gonna do, fire you? Maybe, but maybe not if you got skills and are doing useful work the rest of the time. (c) Compared to UK, in USA people seemed to waste tons of time at work, faffing about, pointless meetings, playing table football, blatantly making personal phone calls e:g to sort out insurance or something, presenteeism, just being there because you're meant to, but too tired to do anything useful, fixing bugs that wouldn't have existed had people gone home at sensible time and not made mistakes under pressure. I got extra holidays by various means including job-hops, 1 was by choice, other the place went bust, took some unpaid leave too. 1 year only had 4 weeks vacation, but quit that job and did long road trip the following year. Many Americans seemed to get their fair share of vacation by job-hopping, contracting, even quitting job to go travelling then call the same employer when they felt like coming back. If you stay in the same job for years your vacation entitlement is rubbish. The problem of course happens if you have a family and need some stability. But I suppose if you're frugal, don't have a huge mortgage, spouse has good skills too, you might both be able to keep job-hopping if that's what it takes to get decent time off. Whole system seems a bit daft to me really.
- Notanothertoo 5y ago
  I think you extrapolated a lot on very little.
Notanothertoo 5y ago
As a tech worker with 3-5 years experience you can begin to demand 4-6 weeks pretty easily.
JohnClark1337 5y ago
rufus_foreman 5y ago
>> their companies gave them 3 weeks, and quite quickly 4, and it was actually pretty common That's pretty common in non-MAMMON tech jobs. I think my first non-intern coding job it was 3 weeks that went to 4 after a couple years, then when I had more senior roles it was 4 or 5 weeks to start. Current job is 5 weeks with an option to buy another week. When I was working class, it was two weeks, but I would get laid off for a month or two a year, so it was more managing money to have enough to supplement unemployment insurance during the layoff in order to be able to enjoy the time off.
devilbunny 5y ago
People used to work 12+ hour days, six days a week. Farmers still do, in some cases. It's all about expectations, really. There have been times in my life that I didn't use vacation because I didn't have enough money to take a vacation that I thought would be fun. In four years of medical residency (aka junior doctor), I think I took three weeks off? I could never take more than one week off at a time, or the month would not count toward my educational requirements. So, why take a week off to sit at the house doing nothing? I have a lot more time off now, as a fully qualified specialist, but I'm hostage to her schedule for trips, I have to pick my vacation weeks (and yes, I have to take a full week or nothing) a full year in advance, and COVID restrictions have well and truly fucked the kind of travel we did pre-2020. I had two weeks off in September, a reservation made a year before in the hopes that all of this would have been over by then, and I did little things around the house. Frankly, I would just as soon have been at work. The biggest benefit I got was sleeping in, which is nice, but I've been waking up at 5:30 for nearly twenty years, so "sleeping in" is 7 at the latest, and I usually don't make it that far.
gremlinsinc 5y ago
As a european you can't understand how America still has slavery, you mean, right? Cause that's what it is... exhaustion, depression, anxiety, burnout is par for the course with being American, I'll even go out on a limb and say that fixing this and mental health in America would do more for extremely strict gun laws. People in their right mind don't do this shit. We're not in our right minds (collectively, and it'll be a long time - if ever - before we are.).

MrLeap 5y ago

You get a few extra weeks between jobs when you quit or are fired ;D

quartesixte 5y ago

Some companies will offer either an annual increase in the number of paid vacation days based on seniority/time employed, a generous allowance from the start, or just the fabled "unlimited" vacation days. There are also all the national holidays that result in 3-day weekends, the week long vacation that is Thanksgiving for many workers, as well as Christmas shutdowns. It really varies on the industry/job-type, but the bare minimum two weeks of paid vacation can be found in many other places too. Something that gets missed a lot in these conversations is that hourly workers are often on a vacation accrual type system. Time worked = time vacation earned at a certain ratio. The more senior you become, the higher that ratio. This is anecdata, but I've seen guys be able to take a week-long vacation every three months without ever depleting their two week allowance because they have "refilled" their vacation time by that point. For job offers that can be negotiated prior to going in, it's been observed that some people might have completely, almost wildly, different vacation plans than what is standard because of what they negotiated at the offer-stage of their employment. That all being said, I'd rather much have just a simpler, 4-5 week standard across the board vacation law. Would cut the headache out of trying to figure out vacation accrual vs. usage ratios, play guessing games on exactly how unlimited that unlimited plan is, random gossip of that ONE guy at work who's on some different vacation plan because he strongarmed HR during hiring to get it, etc.

mihaigalos 5y ago
> There are also all the national holidays Yes, but other parts of the world have them as well. Most EU countries have >13, while US has 12, according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_public_holidays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of... Here in the EU, it is common to have >25d/y holiday. Some data I came across by living in multiple EU countries: * Austria 25d/y, 38.5h/w. * France: 25d/y, 35h/w * Germany: 30d/y, 40h/w.
- quartesixte 5y ago
  Good point. I’ve lived in countries with more than the US as well and definitely think we should get more here. The work culture here also views vacations in a different way too. The number of people I’ve heard bemoaning our European counterparts for taking too many vacations is not a trivial number… “Man, I can’t even go 1 week without getting bored! Why are they always on vacation!” Maybe the US is just a nation run by workaholics enabled by workaholics beneath them trying to get there spot and everyone else cargo-culting or being browbeaten into being a workaholic.

zerocount 5y ago

American companies tend to give employees as little as possible. Two weeks vacation is 10 days and you may be on call on the last weekend of that. Then you might get a few sick days but it's never enough if you actually get sick with the flu or Covid. So, many of us have to go to work sick or use vacation days. Nobody wants to use vacation while sick, so other people at work get sick because we go to work sick. And then your vacation has to be approved. I had a manager who would only approve 1 week of vacation at a time. He said 2 weeks off is too long away from work. So, it varies from one company to another, but generally it's not good because there's too much bullshit involved.

dustymcp 5y ago
Wow just wow i feel with you guys, its amazingly sad for such a rich country..
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jawilson2 5y ago
  We're not a rich country, there are some rich individuals.

fallingfrog 5y ago

2 weeks paid vacation is a luxury reserved for those who have made it into an upper middle class office job- most blue collar jobs like restocking shelves offer no paid vacation at all, and many offer no maternity leave or health care either. You can always tell a working class person by their teeth, which by their late 30’s will have started falling out.

nickd2001 5y ago
"You can always tell a working class person by their teeth, which by their late 30’s will have started falling out." that seems to me a tragedy especially in such a rich country as USA. wonder if its lack of dental cover, or soft drinks , or bit of both? I remember as a kid at school when someone's baby tooth falls out and they bring it in, leave it in a glass of coke, and in frighteningly short time the whole thing is dissolved.
Notanothertoo 5y ago
You get 1/2 weeks paid at chic fila as a cashier. Grocery stores ie stocking shelves full time is also the same at nearly every chain. Tradesman have it better.

parkingrift 5y ago

2-4 weeks of vacation plus 7-10 days of holiday is common.

drewbug01 5y ago

> Or is it that most companies provide 4 or 5 weeks evenif the law mandates a lot less? American law doesn’t mandate any vacation leave.

nickd2001 5y ago

As a Brit who worked in US late 90s-early 00s , some things I noticed: (a) US was 40 hrs/wk, equiv to 3 weeks extra at work per year compared to UK's 37-37.5 standard hrs. (b) Plus sometimes "yeah, I'm also gonna need you to go ahead and come in at the weekend, m'kay", although you can simply refuse. What they gonna do, fire you? Maybe, but maybe not if you got skills and are doing useful work the rest of the time. (c) Compared to UK, in USA people seemed to waste tons of time at work, faffing about, pointless meetings, playing table football, blatantly making personal phone calls e:g to sort out insurance or something, presenteeism, just being there because you're meant to, but too tired to do anything useful, fixing bugs that wouldn't have existed had people gone home at sensible time and not made mistakes under pressure. I got extra holidays by various means including job-hops, 1 was by choice, other the place went bust, took some unpaid leave too. 1 year only had 4 weeks vacation, but quit that job and did long road trip the following year. Many Americans seemed to get their fair share of vacation by job-hopping, contracting, even quitting job to go travelling then call the same employer when they felt like coming back. If you stay in the same job for years your vacation entitlement is rubbish. The problem of course happens if you have a family and need some stability. But I suppose if you're frugal, don't have a huge mortgage, spouse has good skills too, you might both be able to keep job-hopping if that's what it takes to get decent time off. Whole system seems a bit daft to me really.

Notanothertoo 5y ago
I think you extrapolated a lot on very little.

Notanothertoo 5y ago

As a tech worker with 3-5 years experience you can begin to demand 4-6 weeks pretty easily.

JohnClark1337 5y ago

rufus_foreman 5y ago

>> their companies gave them 3 weeks, and quite quickly 4, and it was actually pretty common That's pretty common in non-MAMMON tech jobs. I think my first non-intern coding job it was 3 weeks that went to 4 after a couple years, then when I had more senior roles it was 4 or 5 weeks to start. Current job is 5 weeks with an option to buy another week. When I was working class, it was two weeks, but I would get laid off for a month or two a year, so it was more managing money to have enough to supplement unemployment insurance during the layoff in order to be able to enjoy the time off.

devilbunny 5y ago

People used to work 12+ hour days, six days a week. Farmers still do, in some cases. It's all about expectations, really. There have been times in my life that I didn't use vacation because I didn't have enough money to take a vacation that I thought would be fun. In four years of medical residency (aka junior doctor), I think I took three weeks off? I could never take more than one week off at a time, or the month would not count toward my educational requirements. So, why take a week off to sit at the house doing nothing? I have a lot more time off now, as a fully qualified specialist, but I'm hostage to her schedule for trips, I have to pick my vacation weeks (and yes, I have to take a full week or nothing) a full year in advance, and COVID restrictions have well and truly fucked the kind of travel we did pre-2020. I had two weeks off in September, a reservation made a year before in the hopes that all of this would have been over by then, and I did little things around the house. Frankly, I would just as soon have been at work. The biggest benefit I got was sleeping in, which is nice, but I've been waking up at 5:30 for nearly twenty years, so "sleeping in" is 7 at the latest, and I usually don't make it that far.

gremlinsinc 5y ago

As a european you can't understand how America still has slavery, you mean, right? Cause that's what it is... exhaustion, depression, anxiety, burnout is par for the course with being American, I'll even go out on a limb and say that fixing this and mental health in America would do more for extremely strict gun laws. People in their right mind don't do this shit. We're not in our right minds (collectively, and it'll be a long time - if ever - before we are.).