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Here is something which flies under the radar everytime regarding petroleum: "Petroleum is our source of plastics & polymers" We may solve the problems of not

Here is something which flies under the radar everytime regarding petroleum: "Petroleum is our source of plastics & polymers" We may solve the problems of not having petro-fuel for industry, or ship oil and replace these with gas. We may solve transportation challenges by EVs. But, there is no economically viable alternative to producing polymers and plastics. If at all we are saving, it should be from the viewpoint of saving building materials for the next several decades. Every single piece of plastic or polymer or synthetic fabric you see around you, was born out of a oil rig. Everything, from medical grade plastics used in medicine capsules to hospital equipment, to Falcon 9 parts we send to space, to kevlar building materials, is built from petroleum primitives. Imagine how crippled we would become if we fall in short supply. Like explained, the we must pivot our thinking to conserving building materials for future generations, than calculate them as fuels only.

narag 5y ago
If fuels get more scarce, the prices will grow so high that petroleum would be too expensive to be used as fuel, compared to electricity, and the last reserves would be devoted to other uses. Also what about the "indestructible" plastics in dumpsters?
- ericmay 5y ago
  I’m not sure. I’ve heard compelling arguments that prices will be drastically cheaper when supply is the lowest because we will still rely on it but it’ll be uneconomical to extract by private companies so the government will subsidize the production and sale. A huge run for the hills moment would be if the US nationalized the industry. Doomsday kind of stuff.
- srvmshr 5y ago
  > Also what about the "indestructible" plastics in dumpsters I am not an expert in polymers, and please do correct me if I am wrong: Thermoplastic materials can be reused for some cycles. But thermosets, like formalin which builds chairs and hard materials are essentially one-time use and hard to degrade.
ericmay 5y ago
I think plastics should be strictly regulated and only available for medical purposes or space exploration. Might need to be phased out but we need them for these other purposes. We don’t need them for plastic straws.
redwood 5y ago
Wow I just looked to how much oil goes into plastic, assuming a tiny portion. Turns out it's not a straight forward question and a lot of the input is actually natural gas https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=34&t=6 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=34&t=6 Anyway I saw estimates ranging from 4% to 10% of petroleum going into plastic... higher than I thought
bsder 5y ago
If we quit burning petroleum for fuel, we have a century plus of feedstock for plastic. We can make plastic now out of bio feedstock, it's just expensive. If petroleum prices rose sufficiently, bio feedstock becomes reasonable. In addition, a lot of our problems with "alternate" sources of materials are that they would use a lot of electricity to create--which we currently get by, you guessed it, burning petroleum. So, it's more efficient to simply start with petroleum feedstock and skip the conversion losses. If more of our system were based on renewable energy, then converting other feedstock to plastic becomes viable.

narag 5y ago

If fuels get more scarce, the prices will grow so high that petroleum would be too expensive to be used as fuel, compared to electricity, and the last reserves would be devoted to other uses. Also what about the "indestructible" plastics in dumpsters?

ericmay 5y ago
I’m not sure. I’ve heard compelling arguments that prices will be drastically cheaper when supply is the lowest because we will still rely on it but it’ll be uneconomical to extract by private companies so the government will subsidize the production and sale. A huge run for the hills moment would be if the US nationalized the industry. Doomsday kind of stuff.
srvmshr 5y ago
> Also what about the "indestructible" plastics in dumpsters I am not an expert in polymers, and please do correct me if I am wrong: Thermoplastic materials can be reused for some cycles. But thermosets, like formalin which builds chairs and hard materials are essentially one-time use and hard to degrade.

ericmay 5y ago

I think plastics should be strictly regulated and only available for medical purposes or space exploration. Might need to be phased out but we need them for these other purposes. We don’t need them for plastic straws.

redwood 5y ago

Wow I just looked to how much oil goes into plastic, assuming a tiny portion. Turns out it's not a straight forward question and a lot of the input is actually natural gas https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=34&t=6 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=34&t=6 Anyway I saw estimates ranging from 4% to 10% of petroleum going into plastic... higher than I thought

bsder 5y ago

If we quit burning petroleum for fuel, we have a century plus of feedstock for plastic. We can make plastic now out of bio feedstock, it's just expensive. If petroleum prices rose sufficiently, bio feedstock becomes reasonable. In addition, a lot of our problems with "alternate" sources of materials are that they would use a lot of electricity to create--which we currently get by, you guessed it, burning petroleum. So, it's more efficient to simply start with petroleum feedstock and skip the conversion losses. If more of our system were based on renewable energy, then converting other feedstock to plastic becomes viable.